Southwell Rods.

[Wallys-Cast]

I was wondering if anybody can give some defining features of Bob Southwell built rod blanks.
I have over the years read all sorts of things about his methods of building which are then later just dispelled as myth.
You hear of dark baked cane with very small linear splits near the nodes due to compressing the node rather than filing it flat to give more strength or of certain minimum distances between the nodes due to the type of cane used. Can anyone give any real answers or show any certain peculiarities of Southwell built cane.

Thanks in advance.
Wal.

[Santiago]

My mkiv kit rod might be a Southwell blank since state of the cane matches exactly to a description on another forum, but I'm not sure if I'm permitted to link!

Anyways, the cane is dark and super steely but there are visible glue lines which apparently are often found. The quality is in the cane but they are often not built perfectly.

[Nobby]

Visible glue lines are most definitely not found on any professionally made fishing rods.
It is a fault indicating poor and imprecise planing.

I've handled rods by Southwell, indeed I've owned one before now and the cane looked no darker to me. At least no darker than other rods with well-baked cane. Ted Oliver, who worked for Southwell tells me he was taught to press nodes in a vice after heating them, just as he illustrates in his own catalogues with a photograph.
I asked if this didn't cool the cane down before you had a chance to compress the node, but Ted said not. He went on to say there was never any fancy hot node press when I asked about this fabled bit of kit and that cane was heated over a flame to dispel moisture and it is this which gives both his, and Southwells, cane their dark colour.
Indeed Ted's rods are dark and he writes most strongly in regard to how this moisture must be dispelled in a certain way so as to prevent it getting back in again.


With both Ted Oliver and Clive Young working for Southwell, both going on to found their own highly respected firms, as well as two other employees at Station Road, Croydon, there must be a fair bit of Southwell cane out there, but it seems silly to me to think that they were the only ones who knew how to heat cane and get it just right. Other makers simply must have had this skill too, particularly when you consider how big some of them were.

I feel there is far too much attribution of Southwell cane just because it is dark. I've recently sold ( to a TFF member) a rod with darker cane than any I have ever seen anywhere....and very fine it felt too...but it isn't a Southwell, it's an Aspindale!


I sometimes wonder if it would have been physically possible for Southwell to have supplied all the other rod makers he is supposed to have supplied? Yes, he may have sent built cane to all sorts of other rod makers from time to time, doubtless he supplied some to Clive Young and J B Walker, for example, but to say that any J B Walker rod that has dark cane is surely by Southwell is simply wishful thinking and assumes that nobody else could flame cane properly, which is frankly absurd.


Add to these thoughts the fact that much dark cane around today isn't actually that dark, it's just that the old varnish on it has darkened considerably since it was first applied 50 years ago and you have a situation where nothing is certain.



At the end of the day..if a cane rod feels good it probably IS good. But I've had it conclusively proved to me by a rod builder that dark baked or flamed cane does not have a different action to pale blonde cane.....it's all in the quality of the cane and the tapers, despite what one chap has written.


Rather off-topic, Wal, for which I apologise, but what I'm finally getting around to saying is that I don't think there is a single element that you can say is a sure sign of a Southwell.


There's transfers, of course, and white lettered writing in the Milwards style on the Captain's rods. They are dark...but so's the varnish on them now...and no darker than other rods of that period. I have seen a couple with very tight decorative spiral whipping on the butt in black silk, but nothing that couldn't be done by someone else retrospectively, just as writing and even transfers can be. Funnilly enough it was the chap who wrote about the " dark steely cane" that was the first I heard of to make his own transfers.......

[Santiago]

Thanks Nobby, I know I'm just wishful thinking and if it was'nt for you sharing your knowledge I'd be totally clueless so your input is much appreciated!

Most of the glue lines on that rod are tiny, although one was big enought (just over an inch) for the previous owner to whip over a section. And when measuring the taper I did find the sections not to have perfect cross hex symmetry. However, whatever Southwell's DNA is supposed to be, something apparently that is not down in writing, from reading around the subject (spot the contradiction) I have the impression that it involves several imperfections in construction using very good quality cane. But the caveat to that is that's my impression, and I know next to nothing about cane (and I'm sure you know that). But I have read from a very good source that some of JB Walker kit rods had glue lines, and one comment that a particular kit rod looked like it had been made on a Friday afternoon after a lunchtime in the bar.

With regard to cane colour what I've found 100% agrees with what your saying. My recently restored pike rod, for example, is very light in colour yet super steely, but another light coloured rod is quite soft (different taper but the softness is the cane which is a Japaneese import).

[Santiago]

Just looked through my pms and Bumble reckons from the pics that this MKIV was from Walkers Of Bampton. I don't know if this is correct or not, but it is built to Dick Walkers exact specifications, albeit with small glue lines etc. I think the second time I posted about this I remembered what Bumble said all wrong and I fear my memory is getting worse. Over the last few days, for example, I've struggled to remember some technical names but have known the letter they begin with; most frustrating!!

[Nobby]

Just to make things even more confusing, and the search for great cane all the harder.....I was pointed in the direction of a scientific paper that said properly dried cane would take on water again after about 2 years...... But I've another work that suggests it's the molecular change that takes place in the cane when the water is chased out that gives it the 'feel'.

Still, certain rods still feel superb 50 years after they were built so either the first paper is baloney or there's still more to it for us to learn.

I would have thought that J B Walker rods wouldn't exhibit glue lines as they were machine planed and the cane sections should therefore be exact. But I suppose any machine is only as good as the man operating it and I know that at least one of J B's planers was completely worn out as David Norwich, the Scots rod-builder who bought it found out when it arrived. I have an e-mail from him somewhere telling me how he had to rebuild the whole thing.




I think it's Walker-Bampton...two ex-Hardy employees who set up in business for themselves. I have no experience of their work, but I'm told it was right up there with Hardy's. I've no idea if this is verified in any way, but it makes interesting reading:

http://www.french-flies.com/2008/01/jjs ... nwick.html

[Santiago]

Thanks Nobby that link is quite interesting! I suspect the rods possibly not a Walker Bampton because the quality is not there in the build. So realistically it might be an apprentice piece but I will get it checked when I can. Oddly it may have Walkers dimensions and compound taper but I reckon it has a test curve of about 2lb. Which makes me suspect Walker may have under estimated to account for variations in cane. But I'm only guessing and have not read this elsewhere!

[Ticker]

Hi I am new to this forum and thanks for letting me join. I have inherited my dad's old fishing tackle . Amongst the items is a very beautiful and imaculate split cane fly fishing rod. It has a bung fitted in the ferrule and the following writing in black ink on the but. " The Blagdon 9 lightweight fly by JW Southwell and son". My dad only did sea fishing (sorry) and I have never seen him with the rod? Do any of you know about the history of this beautiful rod thanks Ticker

[Nigel Rainton]

There is a video on YouTube showing Southwell making a rod during a visit to British Columbia. Search on southwell rodmaker (sic)

[Nigel Rainton]

I have four of his fly rods. Three are signed, one unsigned but has immaculate provenance. They are all different colours and actions.