Leaders

[Iasgair]

Which type of leader do you prefer? I gave up on tapered nylon leaders a few years back and only use tapered threaded furled leaders now. I never knew if them until I watched videos from Jonathan Barnes ( whatever happened to him? ) and he used nylon furled leaders. So shopping one day I found some nylon furled leaders and tried them out. I liked them except for one thing and that was they will soak up water after awhile and then the become difficult to fish dries with. Also I had the loop connection at the end give out on me.

I then was introduced to threaded furled leaders and never regretted it. Very versatile and dependable. Yes, they soak up water too, but just squeeze the water out using a kitchen roll and a few false casts and you are back to fishing. You can even coat it with floatant to make it last even longer. The kind I buy are already guaranteed to float because the maker, Jamie, grand person to know, applies his own floatant into the leaders. He has leaders for dries, wet flies, pike, and nymphing. But he will tell you for trout fishing dry or wet, he just used his floating leader for dries.

I have a question. In the UK, do they still make these leaders out of horse hair? And I have heard of cat gut being used, is that really what I am thinking it is?

In the waters I fish, creeks and rivers, I find a leader less than seven feet six inches best. With the tippet it comes to about nine feet long and I find that works well for dry flies. Anything longer because of the current and twisting seams drag comes into play. But with a furled leader drag is less of an issue. When I'm fishing a duo dry fly I use shorter tippet to prevent the second fly from drag. But I don't know why I even use a duo system because our waters move fast and the fish 99% of the time take the first fly because they won't let a meal pass by.

On the rare occasions I fish lakes, I don't see the need to go longer because I have found that these furled leaders don't spook the fish. It sure saves on degreasing too because I only have to degrease the tippet.

Nylon tapered leaders work, no doubt, but I have found advantages with tapered threaded furled leaders.

Which style do you prefer?

[Ian]

Which type of leader do you prefer? I gave up on tapered nylon leaders a few years back and only use tapered threaded furled leaders now. I never knew if them until I watched videos from Jonathan Barnes ( whatever happened to him? ) and he used nylon furled leaders. So shopping one day I found some nylon furled leaders and tried them out. I liked them except for one thing and that was they will soak up water after awhile and then the become difficult to fish dries with. Also I had the loop connection at the end give out on me.

I then was introduced to threaded furled leaders and never regretted it. Very versatile and dependable. Yes, they soak up water too, but just squeeze the water out using a kitchen roll and a few false casts and you are back to fishing. You can even coat it with floatant to make it last even longer. The kind I buy are already guaranteed to float because the maker, Jamie, grand person to know, applies his own floatant into the leaders. He has leaders for dries, wet flies, pike, and nymphing. But he will tell you for trout fishing dry or wet, he just used his floating leader for dries.

I have a question. In the UK, do they still make these leaders out of horse hair? And I have heard of cat gut being used, is that really what I am thinking it is?

In the waters I fish, creeks and rivers, I find a leader less than seven feet six inches best. With the tippet it comes to about nine feet long and I find that works well for dry flies. Anything longer because of the current and twisting seams drag comes into play. But with a furled leader drag is less of an issue. When I'm fishing a duo dry fly I use shorter tippet to prevent the second fly from drag. But I don't know why I even use a duo system because our waters move fast and the fish 99% of the time take the first fly because they won't let a meal pass by.

On the rare occasions I fish lakes, I don't see the need to go longer because I have found that these furled leaders don't spook the fish. It sure saves on degreasing too because I only have to degrease the tippet.

Nylon tapered leaders work, no doubt, but I have found advantages with tapered threaded furled leaders.

Which style do you prefer?

I think horse hair is a thing of the past iasgair “I think”. Cat gut? Well nylon used to be called “gut”,and I’m glad you have reminded me of this past term. I remember calling monofilament gut “I’m using 10lb fishing gut today”. I wonder if that’s where the term came from,what you are on about.
Maybe the more seasoned fishermen on the forum will know. Interesting thoughts.

I haven’t tried the furled leader you so kindly gifted to me. Hopefully next summer will see some water in the burn,allowing me to get down there.
I went down a walk the other day after all the rain we’ve had and it’s in full flow,but come spring it will be back to low again,no doubt.

[Nigel Rainton]

I only use Greys nylon tapered leaders, they are transparent and quite supple. The leader tapers to 7lb bs at the tippet end and the thick end is glued inside the fly line braid with superglue. The leader is 9' long, I use about a 3' long 5lb bs Stroft tippet. I only use one fly.

I've read about braided/furled leaders but can't see the logic in using one. The fly line manufacturers invest a lot of time and money designing the front tapers of their lines and adding a braided tapered leader seems pointless. I want my fly to be as far away from the fly line as reasonably to avoid scaring the trout. Simple is best

[Iasgair]

I only use Greys nylon tapered leaders, they are transparent and quite supple. The leader tapers to 7lb bs at the tippet end and the thick end is glued inside the fly line braid with superglue. The leader is 9' long, I use about a 3' long 5lb bs Stroft tippet. I only use one fly.

I've read about braided/furled leaders but can't see the logic in using one. The fly line manufacturers invest a lot of time and money designing the front tapers of their lines and adding a braided tapered leader seems pointless. I want my fly to be as far away from the fly line as reasonably to avoid scaring the trout. Simple is best

That's just it with threaded furled leaders. They land softly and they don't scare fish. Being made of thread they are very supple. I have seen twigs and leaves flow over fish without spooking them but have seen nylon leaders go over fish and they will spook the fish. I truly believe its the sheen from the sunlight the fish pick up on and shy away. Threaded furled leaders don't have this problem.

So the reasons you like your leader, you might like furled leaders for. I'd be happy to send you the longest I have to give a try.

[Liphook]

Furled, tapered, hand tied, french and even polyleaders all have their place. I also like the furled thread for short accurate casting on brooks, becks and burns. Incidentally I was brought up calling leaders 'casts", tippet 'point' and nylon 'gut'.

[Watermole+]

Iasgair; horsehair is only used today by a few eccentric anglers for reasons best known to themselves. They are beautifully tapered but are opaque, unpredictably weak and therefore unsporting to use when there are far more superior modern materials available.

“Cat gut” mercifully did not come from cats. To my understanding, it is the large intestine of the silkworm and either drawn (through a sized hole) or undrawn (natural). It was the normal and best “cast” or “leader” material after horsehair until the post-war advert of modern nylon became readily available, although many gut substitutes were tried. “Jagut”, the brand name of Japanese gut being one of the more well known.
It’s great advantage was that Jagut was sold in ten yard lengths whereas gut needed to be painfully knotted together as by definition, it was only possible in very short lengths.
The advantage of gut was that although it was fragile when dry and frayed at the slightest provocation, it readily absorbed water and thus sank easily and had the ability to lay a fly on the water as straight as a pointing finger. It could also be easily dyed to a variety of colours.

A cast damper box was an essential part of the fly fisherman’s outfit, along with his fly wallet. This item was still being made in coloured Bakelite resin by Hardy Bros. in the 1960s; indeed, I bought and used one myself and still have it today. The casts were individually wound onto circular carrier discs and stored in the screw lid, circular box with wet rings of felt interfaced between them. They were thus all ready for immediate use when fishing as gut requires soaking before it can be joined.

Unused vintage gut casts and points can still be bought in their original envelopes quite easily.

Furled leaders. My thoughts on why they came into being in the first place is that even the very best modern, tapered, floating and “intermediate” lines are as thick as rope at their ends, compared to good silk lines and require a very thick leader diameter at the point of attachment and rapid ‘step down’ to achieve a half decent turnover and presentation.
The furled leader replicates the natural weight to diameter ratio of the dressed silk line and gives the modern line user a taste of what the old school angler always knew.

I have just measured the end diameter of my #4 silk line and it is 0.018”, which is less than 1/2 millimetre. No modern line even comes close to that. I therefore can use a 2- 2 1/2 yard leader tapered down to 0.004” and get the best presentation and line control. I have even reduced that to one yard when fishing broken water!

Tapered ready-made leaders are very expensive and seemingly a modern necessity. I make my own as many anglers used to do, by joining lengths of different diameter nylon or
fluorocarbon. You can customise them to your own lengths, diameters and rates of taper for a mere fraction of the cost.
I have bought and given a fair trial to different brands of ready made leaders and found them to be of absolutely no advantage over ones that you can make for yourself.

Most who have tried them say how much furled leaders have improved their casting but I can’t help but think that they are just a nod of admission from modern lines toward those old school lines they usurped, to the natural casting, turnover and fishing abilities of the latter..

wm+

[Iasgair]

Iasgair; horsehair is only used today by a few eccentric anglers for reasons best known to themselves. They are beautifully tapered but are opaque, unpredictably weak and therefore unsporting to use when there are far more superior modern materials available.

“Cat gut” mercifully did not come from cats. To my understanding, it is the large intestine of the silkworm and either drawn (through a sized hole) or undrawn (natural). It was the normal and best “cast” or “leader” material after horsehair until the post-war advert of modern nylon became readily available, although many gut substitutes were tried. “Jagut”, the brand name of Japanese gut being one of the more well known.
It’s great advantage was that Jagut was sold in ten yard lengths whereas gut needed to be painfully knotted together as by definition, it was only possible in very short lengths.
The advantage of gut was that although it was fragile when dry and frayed at the slightest provocation, it readily absorbed water and thus sank easily and had the ability to lay a fly on the water as straight as a pointing finger. It could also be easily dyed to a variety of colours.

A cast damper box was an essential part of the fly fisherman’s outfit, along with his fly wallet. This item was still being made in coloured Bakelite resin by Hardy Bros. in the 1960s; indeed, I bought and used one myself and still have it today. The casts were individually wound onto circular carrier discs and stored in the screw lid, circular box with wet rings of felt interfaced between them. They were thus all ready for immediate use when fishing as gut requires soaking before it can be joined.

Unused vintage gut casts and points can still be bought in their original envelopes quite easily.

Furled leaders. My thoughts on why they came into being in the first place is that even the very best modern, tapered, floating and “intermediate” lines are as thick as rope at their ends, compared to good silk lines and require a very thick leader diameter at the point of attachment and rapid ‘step down’ to achieve a half decent turnover and presentation.
The furled leader replicates the natural weight to diameter ratio of the dressed silk line and gives the modern line user a taste of what the old school angler always knew.

I have just measured the end diameter of my #4 silk line and it is 0.018”, which is less than 1/2 millimetre. No modern line even comes close to that. I therefore can use a 2- 2 1/2 yard leader tapered down to 0.004” and get the best presentation and line control. I have even reduced that to one yard when fishing broken water!

Tapered ready-made leaders are very expensive and seemingly a modern necessity. I make my own as many anglers used to do, by joining lengths of different diameter nylon or
fluorocarbon. You can customise them to your own lengths, diameters and rates of taper for a mere fraction of the cost.
I have bought and given a fair trial to different brands of ready made leaders and found them to be of absolutely no advantage over ones that you can make for yourself.

Most who have tried them say how much furled leaders have improved their casting but I can’t help but think that they are just a nod of admission from modern lines toward those old school lines they usurped, to the natural casting, turnover and fishing abilities of the latter..

wm+

Thank you for clearing that all up for me. Whew! I'm glad that no cats were harmed making any leaders. But that's what I thought at first, that it was made from actual cat's gut.

Seriously though, I appreciate the information you shared with me.

[Nigel Rainton]

" I'd be happy to send you the longest I have to give a try."

Thank you for the offer but I am content with tapered nylon. I glue the thick end of my leader inside the fly line braid, something I could not do with braided leader. I like the transparency of nylon, thread is opaque. I don't tie my own leaders because I like to keep knots to a minimum, one to join the tippet and another to the fly. Knots don't slide easily through rod rings and are inherently weak.

I persevered with a silk fly line, I found the fine tip useless against a wind and it sank after a couple of hours. Never again.

[Watermole+]

" I'd be happy to send you the longest I have to give a try."

Thank you for the offer but I am content with tapered nylon. I glue the thick end of my leader inside the fly line braid, something I could not do with braided leader. I like the transparency of nylon, thread is opaque. I don't tie my own leaders because I like to keep knots to a minimum, one to join the tippet and another to the fly. Knots don't slide easily through rod rings and are inherently weak.

I persevered with a silk fly line, I found the fine tip useless against a wind and it sank after a couple of hours. Never again.

Nylon may seem to be transparent to us, but it’s very opaque to fish!

I absolutely agree with you in keeping knots to the minimum. You have two; one at each end of the tippet. The best tied knots are about 85% efficient so you are at best, losing about 30% of your tippet b.s. when dry; a little more when wet.

Your knotless leader is therefore no stronger than my knotted one, since I have the same number as yours, plus another two for extra two pieces of make up the leader, the whole being joined to the line by a very small, whipped (not knotted) loop-which makes it quickly interchangeable.
However, the additional two are leader material of progressively increased diameter and therefore greater breaking strain. In the event of a hitch up in a tree, the weakest end will always fail first.

I also agree that knots do not slide well through rod rings, but when do they ever need to? The line end is always through the rod tip!

It seems a shame that you dislike silk lines so much. The thinnest diameter on them is heavier than the same in nylon and therefore will cut through any wind. I suspect that you had either a very poor quality line- or that the leader was totally unsuited to the occasion..possibly too long..?

Just a few thoughts..

wm+

[Duckett]

Catgut for stringed instruments and surgical sutures was mostly made from the lining of the intestine of sheep and goats. Would that used for fishing have come from another source I wonder? There are several possible explanations of why it became known as catgut, but my musician girlfriend likes the idea that it’s a corruption of “kittgut” meaning fiddle string. Language is a wonderful thing!

Phil