Major Disapointment

[Barbelbonce]

Yep, its all about the money, for sure.
Am intrigued by the reference to Martin Salter....?? Enlighten us, please!
Mike

[Grumpy]

Such a shame an idyllic water has been ruined by idiots who have no respect for the fishes welfare.As well as being grossly overstocked,modern carp rigs 3-4oz leads,heavy line and broom handle rods lead to terrible mouth damage.A couple of my club lakes have this scenario,I wrote to the chairman expressing my concerns,I did not even get a reply.
Barbelbonce,at the risk of losing a friend,you could try contacting the landowner and let him know what has happened to his lake.You never know,action may be taken.

[Olly]

Who are you meeting from the AT?

Look at the Angling Trust - Senior Team - Chief Policy Advisor - - - - Martin. Now retired Labour MP and Angling Rep in the Commons!

I believe the position in the Commons is now taken by Charles Walker MP - Con.

[Barbelbonce]

Olly,
I know well who Martin Salter is, his history and his current role in the Trust. But he is not the man I would like to talk to.
I don't know who will be attending the event representing the Angling Trust. I have met several senior team members from the Trust at sundry regional gatherings that are attended by them in conjunction with the local EA fisheries guys. These events have always been well attended and the debates have been brisk!
I will just talk to whoever is there and find out whom I need to follow-up with next week.
Mike

[Olly]

You asked a question to which I replied!

A personal friend of many years!

[Barbelbonce]

Olly, I agree. Here's hoping that the EA are fully up to speed with the problems caused by overstocking. How can they not be?
If Martin is there, I will try hard to speak to him - he will be in much demand, I'm sure.
Many thanks,
Mike

[Hovis]

The EA are also to blame for allowing overstocking - however I believed that stocking permissions may now be under more scrutiny than before.
Ask Martin Salter - - - -

Much of the overstocking is to encourage permits to be sold - money may be made - on the number of fish being caught.

Olly, to add some balance to this. Stocking to registered fisheries is covered by legislation. The keeping of introduction of fish regs [KIFr] to be exact. A site is required to hold permission in the form of a site permit prior to stocking. These are free and no revenue is generated to the EA, indeed it actually costs staff time. There is no element of fish welfare, this is at the discretion of the fishery manager. However, biomass limits may be set in some cases, such as protected sites like SSSI.

To move on somewhat - there is no case law (to my knowledge) on fish welfare and its subsequent enforcement. In theory they'll be covered under the animal welfare act as a vertebrate. Problem is suffering fish aren't as visible as say dogs chained up or donkeys in a field. There are 5 values that must be satisfied withing the act to ensure animal are adequately cared for. It may be some fisheries don't provide this. I stronger advise care is taken though. Point 5 states: 'be protected from pain, suffering, injury and disease' we may want some fisheries to clean up thier act but at what cost? Considering the act in public is akin to opening Pandoras box.
It is my opinion that those opposing blood sports may well start banging on the door of angling very soon.
Food for thought.

[Wanderer]

The kind of waters described by Barbelbonce, disgust me, as, I am sure, they do to any , right thinking Angler.

How any person can derive any pleasure or satisfaction from" fishing" such watery "Hell Holes" is beyond my understanding.

[Olly]

I worked in fisheries for nearly 20 years as the Conservation Manager for RMC/CEMEX.

Before I retired the EA were going to investigate the effective biomass per acre/hectare that should be allowed.

SSSIs come under the remit of DEFRA/Natural England and it's 'permissions allowed' in registration of the SSSI or RAMSAR site. Details of these are available on line.

QUICK ADD:-
I had about 7 or 8 SSSIs and a couple of RAMSARS - in my remit.

[Hovis]

I worked in fisheries for nearly 20 years as the Conservation Manager for RMC/CEMEX.

Before I retired the EA were going to investigate the effective biomass per acre/hectare that should be allowed.

SSSIs come under the remit of DEFRA/Natural England and it's 'permissions allowed' in registration of the SSSI or RAMSAR site. Details of these are available on line.

QUICK ADD:-
I had about 7 or 8 SSSIs and a couple of RAMSARS - in my remit.

Good points sharply made. Not sure the EA ever undertook the biomass study. They have a duty to nature conservation so should seek advice from NE re: fish stocking when assessing a permit application. From memory the 200kg/hectare was what they recommended. It wasn't species specific and we all know that some cyprinids are more 'damaging' than other. The majority of SSSI I look at are failing or in unfavourable condition (certainly for aquatic botanical interest), fish, I suspect, are just one aspect of failure.
The fact still remain the EA don't benefit from over stocked fisheries, unless of cause they increase rod licence sales.