Major Disapointment

[Barbelbonce]

On Monday, I was invited by a great friend to a day on a Sussex syndicate lake of which he is a member. On the strength of his report of his last visit there, which essentially said that I would only need one rod as I would be too busy landing Carp, I accepted his kind invitation, not expecting too much of myself, being a non-carp angler.
A gentlemanly 0730 arrival, a look around to select swims, tackled-up and baits in the water by 0800. A very early (60s) Davenport and Fordham, Grays Inn Road address, glass (Sportex blank, I believe) Farstrike 10' Carp. Mitchell 410. Entirely suitable and traditional...
The lake is a very long-established estate lake in beautifully landscaped grounds with many specimen trees in the woodland, tucked away from the big house. Banks not manicured and NO PLATFORMS! Hurrah. Public walk round the lake but didn't seem too interested in the anglers, thank goodness, of which we were the only ones 'til late afternoon.
Bites came quickly and regularly through the day. Long story short: I banked 12 carp, 6 Common and 6 Mirror. I dropped 7, when I thought I had a good hook-hold and a very good bend in the soft old rod. I was snapped at the hook length once and I lost another right at the rim of the net.
In all, I made good contact with 21 fish. All of whom, ran like stink, as promised by my host.
And what fish. Largest 7lb, smallest, less than 2lb. All very thin indeed - arrow-head shaped from the very prominent back of the skull to the caudal fin. Clearly grossly over-stocked and the fish near-starving.
At those weights and those numbers, if only they had been Tench!
Worse: 80+% of them had the most horrific mouth damage. Multiple tears to lips. Really horrible to see. The worst victim had nothing left that may be described as a mouth. I rather fear that losing so many seemingly well-hooked fish was a result of their terrible mouth conditions, I have probably made them worse, regrettably.
I was hoping that the bailiff might appear so that I might learn something of the fishery management policy of the syndicate owner. Did not show up.
After due reflection, I think that allowing the fish stock to get into such condition might be viewed by some as acts of animal cruelty...??
I will not be returning to that rather beautiful lake.
It would make a fantastic "traditional" club water, run by a responsible outfit. It would take a lot (time and money) to get it to what it should be (in my opinion) and would entail removing and replacing probably all of the existing stock.

I wish I had the time and dosh!
Mike

[Homer Simpson]

Even without the damage, I bet you wouldn't go a third time.
It gets rather boring when they virtually line up to be caught.
Nice once in a while, but I prefer unpredictablity even if it is a blank.

[Tizer]

Sounded great till you get to the bit about mouth damage etc. Who would want to fish a place like that? I was on another forum and someone put up a video of a small pond on a caravan site,he thought it was funny , the carp were all ripping the surface to bits trying to get something to eat,it turned my stomach and I too thought about getting in touch with the rspca.

[Dave Burr]

I admire your thoughts on the venue. Anywhere that is stocked that heavily, removes all of the skill elements that make fishing a sport, it also deprives
the fish of any respect.

[Barbelbonce]

Homer, you're dead right. Queueing up to be caught, because they're desperate to eat.
I won't go a second time to a water like that - even with good mouths, 'cos they won't stay good for long.
Tizer, now I know, I won't be fishing another "runs water" as my friends of the carpista tendency refer to them.
I think I'll stick to Tincas.!
Mike

[Barbelbonce]

Dave, Yes. Respect.
I have spent a lot of time breeding and raising fish and it is the very best of times when you release beautiful fish that you have reared into their new homes, wishing them all the best and respecting them for what they are.
How can you not respect a beautiful, scaly, silvery Mirror, 9in long or a true Churchwarden Crucian or a darkest green, young Tench?
Off Topic, but the Tench that Whitehouse and Mortimer had at Burleigh - WOW, fantastic fish.
Mike

[Tengisgol]

Oh where to start? This was an issue that I touched on with a letter to Anglers Mail (RIP) in 2014:



Take a close look (if you dare) at the photographs of the really big carp that are caught and portrayed by the circuit/full-time/self-promo anglers and you’ll see that even the 30-40-50lbers are the same, many of them.

I’m not even going to discuss it anymore. I am just going into my own peripheral shutdown, in terms of the wider world.

This evening I am taking a #4 fly rod to my local river and with the sun up I shall hope for a virgin chub or two on a big old (barbless) Mayfly (they won’t care it is September). A pounder will be a monster and I shall be happy. You can keep the carp, poor sods.

[Pallenpool]

I am reading this shaking my head, my wife has asked why, I told her and the reply, not again, & again & again. From where I stand the angling world needs to take stock of its actions or are we to need a stronger more apposite governing body, cruelty to animals has been monitored and where ever possible people have been prosecuted - cruelty to fish seems not to have been encapsulated by this. A ‘runs water’ more like a run away water, your candid summary is commendable. As an aside to this there are still some lovely waters in Norfolk where Tincas can be caught in pristine condition and along the lines of those Burghley house beauties - thank goodness.

[Barbelbonce]

T'gol and P'pool (!)
Thanks for your replies.
7+ years ago, T'gol, and your letter to AM had it absolutely right. And I'm afraid we have only gone backwards since then.
Yes, it is not only smaller fish. I remember that British record fish that was trapped a few times at one of the Wasing Estate lakes. That had a really bad mouth, if I'm not mistaken.
Have a great evening, Chubbing on the fly. Could be great; I hope it is.

I'm not sure what the legalities are re. prosecutions for cruelty to animals, P'pool. (Fish scientists refer to fish as "animals", generally, which came as a real surprise to me when I first encountered that usage). Oh, and transporting of live fish comes under the transportation of animals regs and laws.
Re. governing bodies and regulators: our local EA fisheries guys have had their headcount and budget slashed in the last 5 years. They're up against it; they don't even go out to look at river pollutions by farmers' slurry, now. They don't prosecute anything nowadays. They say it is because their barristers demand that the evidence against a potential defendant has to be 100% cast iron before they'll even consider an action in court. As we all know, that's pretty difficult.
By chance, I may well meet reps of the Angling Trust this week-end. I'll see if I have the opportunity to ask some questions. As a very long-time personal member of the ACA and the Angling Trust, I shall stand my ground and demand some answers. One can always hope....can't one?!! Or, I'll just have to stamp my foot.
Thanks to all for every contribution to this debate. I've surprised myself: it is not my usual area for comment. But I'm glad I went on Monday; I've learnt something - not to go again!
Mike

[Olly]

The EA are also to blame for allowing overstocking - however I believed that stocking permissions may now be under more scrutiny than before.
Ask Martin Salter - - - -

Much of the overstocking is to encourage permits to be sold - money may be made - on the number of fish being caught.