Spindle wear

[Frenchman]

I've seen all sorts of pics from domed spindles to flat spindles and spindle with dents in.

What should a spindle look like on a speedia?

Does anybody have a clear pic of a worn out spindle, a worn but useable spindle and an unworn spindle please?

Thanks in advance

[Woolly Bear]

I suppose if there is a lot of movement when the spool is firmly moved sideways and movement backwards too when the centre screw cannot be adjusted to compensate , the spindle is worn . It is always wise to be able to test the reel before buying , unless purchased from a Forum member . Any pictures would not make much difference if its warn its warn . Kindest regards . Woolly Bear . There could possibly be some wear on centre bush too when combined with slight wear on pin equals slight wobble

[Nobby]

Because the spindle, or centrepin, is tool steel it doesn't wear by very much...just a few 'thou', I'm told. The real wear happens inside the bushings of the spool and that's just about impossible to photograph, I fear.

I'm told that since these bushings can't be removed in most cases the usual approach is to machine them out to a larger size and make and fit a new centrepin to suit.

This too is fraught .... and expensive ....not all centrepins can be removed, particularly those pressed into a cast aluminium body 80 years ago!



I've had a few quotes for doing such work and the cost has been approaching 3 figures, consequently it only seems a viable way forward on a reel that is worth a lot of money.


As to the top of the Speedia spindle, it was originally a very round one indeed, being just about half a sphere. You might find one that has a little 'pit' in the centre, worn by the end of the grub screw, but this isn't necassarily a bad thing...it acts as a lubricant well and also reduces the coefficient of friction by spreading the load over a greater area.

I do tend to use a small fine knife sharpening block to dress these pits out, but they always come back in time and if anything the reel gets smoother and still more free-running. I think the answer is to dress both screw end and centrepin to a fine radius and then polish and polish until the metal takes on a 'chrome plated 'appearance, before a little running-in in front of the telly one evening and a few oil changes.



Hardy took a different approach with their Conquest centrepin and didn't fit an end float adjusting screw. Instead the fitted a soft copper 'plug'...this wears quickly to match the tip of the spindle, spreading the load over a comparatively huge area. The spindle in question having an enormous radius the size of a swan shot!


Spins forever, though.........


Whereas an early wooden slater latch reel I have has a spindle like a needle......and it barely spins for 40 seconds as a result.

[Nobby]

I have heard Wallis casters say that a bearing reel runs too fast for them and they prefer a 'true' 'pin...which begs the question "Why am I trying to make centrepins spin faster ?"...... .......

[Chavender]

with most speedia's the wear happens in the bushing ,and it does take only a 1/1000th" or so to be noticable .occationally you do get a speedia whose spindle is pitted or damaged through misshandling even bent slightly .a lot of damage is done to speedia's by people playing big fish on them wrongly appling too much side strain (they play the fish as they would with a fixed spool reel) causing the bushing to wear evenly at a angle giving a conical internal face (giving excessive side play/rocking) or making the internal face go oval causing eliptical wobbing .sometimes a wavy wobble is just uneven wear on the tip of the spindle .



the top spindle is from the latter improved model speedia's (most common speedia) and was pitted and marked ,the bushing had worn conical so needed boring strait (i actually replaced it with another worn (strait) bushing which ment making a new spindle too fit (bottom one) no easy on a cheap chinese micro lathe ,(took three goes too get right and a lot of checks/ measuring & wasted 8mm drill bits (doner metal) .it would of been easier too make a new bushing from phrospher bronze ,but my lathe doesn't have cooling and the phrospher bronze bar gets very ,very hot when being bored out it actually glowed red and melted when i tried .

one day i might buy a myford lathe and try again

the latter improved model speedia's are easy to replace the spindle and bushing ,older basic models are harder to remove .so with all the machining and the tollerances involved garry's £45 is a very good price ,especially as buying another speedia could cost you more or even double that & still be a gamble with wear

[Chavender]

I have heard Wallis casters say that a bearing reel runs too fast for them and they prefer a 'true' 'pin...which begs the question "Why am I trying to make centrepins spin faster ?"...... .......

ideally you want your spool to speed up quickly (low inertia) & reach optimum speed ,hold that speed for a little while 10-15 sec then slow down fast & run smoothly.

with bearings you get the fast start up achieving terminal folocity but maintaining it ,making them very smooth running but with slow runout /slow down with means they're prone to over runs .so need careful mastering (educated thumb) to keep under control .they can vary quite a lot from too smooth/fast to high inertia slow sluggish turning depending on the bearings lubrication .

true pins ,do have a more ideal start up/slow down speeds if/when they're run in or built to high tollerances .bushing material matters quite a bit as cheaper the metal the poorer the performance.i prefer bushings reels because with a good one you get the fast start up and at least 10-15sec'ds of terminal volocity and then a fast slowdown .(which incidently you do get with a good speedia) plus thi can be controlled easily with the lubrication used (lower or higher viscosity oils used) but you still get some very fast true pins that'll give over runs if your not fast on the brakes .

on average i'd say a cast lasts around 10-15 seconds maybe 20 seconds if your really going the distance ,so reels that still spin longer than 20-30s are too fast /gyrosopic (most bearings reels a some true pins) .you want a smooth reel for trotting with so the line peels off at the same speed as the float/flow but not too fast /smooth or the line will unspool or the flow will cause a overspin and backlash tangles which you can get with some bearings reels.

but bearings in heavy use will out live bushings ,and modern bearings reels are very user friendly and can be used in any plane where as true pins have too be used in the currect plane to get the performace right (horizontal/handles skywards) and to cast correctly.

i personally have moved over to mostly true pins ,but still have some bearings reels for specialised niches in my centrepin angling needs ,one (My AN pin) for slow running waters as it has a very low inertia ,a matt hayes aerial for tench carp fishing and my old faithful 5" rolls royce stanton (awaiting a modification to add a brake/spool lock as it has no ratchet or room for a ratchet) for barbel fishing .i might get another cheap bearings reel as a loaner at some point .

i guess its all down to matching your reel too your fishing ,thats my excuse for owning so many centrepins (i'm got it down to 8 or 9 now) and i'm sticking too it

[BBamboo]

When I spoke to Gary Mills some time ago he did not rate bearing centrepins very much. He told me a true pin is better and bearings are not the ideal thing to fit in a centrepin reel.

Just thought I would point that one out.

[Chavender]

I've seen all sorts of pics from domed spindles to flat spindles and spindle with dents in.

What should a spindle look like on a speedia?

Does anybody have a clear pic of a worn out spindle, a worn but useable spindle and an unworn spindle please?

Thanks in advance

the spindle tip factory fresh is flat toppped ,but as it wears they're often rounded off too get a better tip to grub screw contact as its this point-to-point contact that the spool spins on ,plus a domed tip is easier to maintain correct profile .but its more important for the grub screws tip too be correct as this is the turning point of contact ,a domed tip is better than a flat one as a reduced point of contact means less drag/friction

the grub screw also controls the end float/ride height ,speedia's are quite generiously provided with a nice wide latch slot ,in the spindle giving plenty of room for adjustment both for correct ride height and to compensate for tip wear.

i guess ideally the spindle tip would have a concave top so a convexed tipped (domed) grub screw tip could sit in the dished spindles top ,but these would have to be highly lapped in together to get a perfect mating of the two surfaces or the drag/friction would make it impractical hence why people prefer two domed tips to reduce the surface contact ,i'm not totally convinced thats best but it does work and can revive a errant speed just by reshaping the tips

as far as acceptable wear on spindles goes a few pits and scuffs is OK on the middle to top area of the spindle (below the latch groove) ,but its crucial the bottom cm is clear and smooth as thats the area of contact between the spindle and bushing .You can live with a slight Wave wobble ,so long as theres only about 1/2 mm of side to side lateral movement at the end of the day only experience will tell you how much wear is OK as its all a compromise

[Chavender]

the whole bearings Vs bushings thing is a mute point really as both has their strengths and weaknesses and niether is trully perfect or they'd only be the one system .

[QuinetteCane]

Hmm, All Steam Trains used Bushings & they lasted a while too.