‘Avocet’ in name only??

[Jeff Smith]

I was very kindly gifted this rod by a friend and fellow TFF member, last year and have already used it on several occasions.
As can be seen, it’s a restored rod , superbly done(in my humble opinion)),and although it has a slight ‘kink’ to starboard in the top section, this has no bearing whatsoever on its usability.
What I’d like to find out, if possible , is if it’s a B. James rod, or even, if it’s an ‘Avocet’ type from any manufacturer.
I have no interest in it’s value as,being a gift, it’s a definite ‘keeper’ and ‘user’ .
It feels ‘right’ balanced with my 50s Mitchell 300, or a Rapidex ( for trotting) and used on the river for roach , chub and mullet! ( barbel might be a bit ambitious)….and for tench and perch on the ponds.

The original labels , if any, are long gone and simply replaced by a rather tasteful ‘Avocet’transfer.
Rod is 11ft 3inches long assembled.It’s fitted with 9 guides ( low bridge) and what appears to be an original butt guide??
Butt cap looks original?? but the chrome plated trim collar at the top of the handle looks new.??
The handle is 24 1/2 inches long.
Tip section tapers from just over 3mm below tip ring, to 7mm just above the ferrule.
Mid section 8mm below female ferrule to just over 11mm above male ferrule.
The whole cane butt is 15mm below ferrule ( if this has any relevance).
Apologies for the mixture of metric and imperial( my vernier gauge is metric)
My friend cannot remember who, or where, he purchased the rod from ( he’s got so many)but it maybe that it is someone on here?
It’s a long shot but, does anyone recognise it? Or, from my pics and info throw any light on its heritage, or from the dimensions whether it’s taper is ‘Avocet’ in nature.???

[Jeff Smith]

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[Santiago]

Possibly a JB Walker kit rod. They did an Avocet type version. I have one just like yours.

[Coral Maestro]

The "Avocet" label font looks like the font on the transfers used by B. James.

[Jeff Smith]

Possibly a JB Walker kit rod. They did an Avocet type version. I have one just like yours.

If it is, whoever built the rod made a superb job of it- the photos don’t donjustice to the quality of the finish.
When you’ve got a moment, would you mind checking to see if your taper dimensions are similar please.

[Santiago]

The "Avocet" label font looks like the font on the transfers used by B. James.

Sure, I missed that. Definitely looks like a B James!
The taper on mine is just like the B James version, I think!

[Northern_Nomad]

I am the extremely proud owner of a first generation B James Avocet, a very rare beast indeed. In the pursuit of research for information on this rod I discovered a fair few facts, and by no means an expert, some of this info can be of use in this instance.

Firstly without going in huge detail that would send an average trainspotter to sleep, we can split the Avocet history down into 6 versions. For brevity we can discard versions 1 & 2 as they had spigot ferrules amongst other differences, but these are the easiest and quickest eliminators.. We can also discard version 6 which ran to its eventual end as this version was all split cane.

So that leaves versions 3,4 and 5. Given that it could have been re-furbed, some of its tell tale clues could have been removed and some are only known by stripping the rod back to its component parts.

The things we do know is that versions 3 would have had, amongst other unique indicators, a flared trumpet handle with a double step aluminium collar, low bells guides and Southwell dark blanks. Version 4 would have had a familiar ‘onion’ handle,low bells guides and as it was made during 1957 it would have lighter coloured blanks as it was now built on B James in house blanks, due to them having purchased their own bevelling machine at this time. Version 5 is as version 4 with just some minor cosmetic changes. These 3 versions had slightly increased whole cane butt section diameters, versions 4 and 5 having a much ‘floppier’ action than it’s predecessors. So cosmetics apart we can look yours in this light.

Firstly, the handle shape doesn’t fit into any of these 3 versions.
The butt cap is close but inevitably incorrect.
The collar is a very different design
The reel bands are of a different design
The ferrule are of a different type
The rings are incorrect for all versions (although customer versions could vary if specific ringing was requested. This actually isn’t as common as sometimes made out, but occasionally happened).

On the flip side your dimensions for the tip and mid section are thereabouts OK (they all vary by small degrees) and the bigger butt section diameter than versions 1 & 2 is correct. Yours is 15mm my first version is 11mm

Obviously no writing other than the name, but why did this survive very much intact in good condition when the makers name didn’t?

I would say this is on the balance of probabilities is a J B Walker kit rod. It’s not unusual and approved for amateur kit builders to detail the name ( Avocet, MKIV, Avon etc) but not good practice to put the original rod maker or designers name to the rod ( B James, Richard Walker) as this could deceive and be fraudulent. Many put their own names and initials. It also not unusual to find the odd change to reel bands, butt caps if stock was scarce, but not so many differences as found on this rod.

So I would suggest this is a JB Walker kit rod, probably 1957 onwards until end production date.

It is a very good rod with a good pedigree as these blanks were of a high quality and its current finish is extremely good. I’d be pleased to own it

[Jeff Smith]

I am the extremely proud owner of a first generation B James Avocet, a very rare beast indeed. In the pursuit of research for information on this rod I discovered a fair few facts, and by no means an expert, some of this info can be of use in this instance.

Firstly without going in huge detail that would send an average trainspotter to sleep, we can split the Avocet history down into 6 versions. For brevity we can discard versions 1 & 2 as they had spigot ferrules amongst other differences, but these are the easiest and quickest eliminators.. We can also discard version 6 which ran to its eventual end as this version was all split cane.

So that leaves versions 3,4 and 5. Given that it could have been re-furbed, some of its tell tale clues could have been removed and some are only known by stripping the rod back to its component parts.

The things we do know is that versions 3 would have had, amongst other unique indicators, a flared trumpet handle with a double step aluminium collar, low bells guides and Southwell dark blanks. Version 4 would have had a familiar ‘onion’ handle,low bells guides and as it was made during 1957 it would have lighter coloured blanks as it was now built on B James in house blanks, due to them having purchased their own bevelling machine at this time. Version 5 is as version 4 with just some minor cosmetic changes. These 3 versions had slightly increased whole cane butt section diameters, versions 4 and 5 having a much ‘floppier’ action than it’s predecessors. So cosmetics apart we can look yours in this light.

Firstly, the handle shape doesn’t fit into any of these 3 versions.
The butt cap is close but inevitably incorrect.
The collar is a very different design
The reel bands are of a different design
The ferrule are of a different type
The rings are incorrect for all versions (although customer versions could vary if specific ringing was requested. This actually isn’t as common as sometimes made out, but occasionally happened).

On the flip side your dimensions for the tip and mid section are thereabouts OK (they all vary by small degrees) and the bigger butt section diameter than versions 1 & 2 is correct. Yours is 15mm my first version is 11mm

Obviously no writing other than the name, but why did this survive very much intact in good condition when the makers name didn’t?

I would say this is on the balance of probabilities is a J B Walker kit rod. It’s not unusual and approved for amateur kit builders to detail the name ( Avocet, MKIV, Avon etc) but not good practice to put the original rod maker or designers name to the rod ( B James, Richard Walker) as this could deceive and be fraudulent. Many put their own names and initials. It also not unusual to find the odd change to reel bands, butt caps if stock was scarce, but not so many differences as found on this rod.

So I would suggest this is a JB Walker kit rod, probably 1957 onwards until end production date.

It is a very good rod with a good pedigree as these blanks were of a high quality and its current finish is extremely good. I’d be pleased to own it

NN…. First of all, thank you so much for such a detailed and informative reply-much appreciated.
It’s good to know that the rod is at least a fair representation of a genuine Avocet and therefore suitable for that rods original purpose I.e a sort of medium weight bottom rod of about ‘Avon’power.
It certainly seems to handle lively 5lb tench very easily and I am indeed, very pleased to own it.
The fact that it’s probably a J.B Walker kit makes it even more interesting…. I wonder who’s has fished with this rod and what fish it has encountered in its lifetime.
I shall now be sifting through my collection of ‘Angling’ magazines from the 1960s ( more fun)in an attempt to find an advert for J.B Walker products…. I’m sure I’ve come across them occasionally.
One more piece of the puzzle came to light when I looked closely at the rubber button. It’s marked MARCO which I’d not noticed previously.
I know The Modern Arms Rod Co made similar bottom rods but, did they manufacture an 11ft 3in version?? also did they market rod building components?

[Northern_Nomad]

Hi Jeff,

I’m not that familiar with Marco rods.

I am reasonably sure it’s not a B James rod for the reasons articulated. The next logical step would be J B Walker as a known supplier of high quality kit rods.

It may be worth doing some research on Marco rods, tracking down descriptions and photo’s, comparing rod furniture and variations. Beware it becomes addictive, takes up hours of your life and unfortunately you risk becoming a total anorak at the end of it.

90% of rod parts are replaceable and I reckon that 50% get regularly removed and replaced over older rods lifespan when refurbed. It’s normally the more ‘fixed’ items that get retained. Unfortunately a screw in butt cap that gets a lot of abuse, easy to replace or just drops off possibly isn’t the best place to start. I’d concentrate on handles, handle furniture and ferrules as these tend to remain on rods or get reused on a refurb if the cane is sound.

I once saw a rod button with the name ‘Dunlop’ on it. A well known company but I’ve never seen a Dunlop Rod

Well worth researching Marco though. Good luck and do let us know how you get on. It could be a fascinating journey

[Santiago]

They JB Walker kit version of the Avocet is a great rod. In fact, mine is my favourite cane rod, which is great and trotting etc.