Converting Cardinal 66/77 to 66x/77x

[Jeff Smith]

Question for our Cardinal ‘guru’ Beechmerelake but I’m sure others may find it interesting.
Is it possible to swap out the gears on a 66/77 for 66x/77x gears?
I’m assuming the main gear and pinion ( if that’s the correct term for worm drive) would need to be exchanged?
Also, are there any other components that differ between the two groups of reels?
I have a couple of 66s ( one is ‘badged’ Zebco but to all intents and purposes, they’re identical) which I use for barbel fishing.
By slackening the drags, they work extremely well in ‘baitrunner’ mode. A quick spin of the dial to tighten up the drag when I get a take seems to work well but I’ve always found the gear ratio a bit pedestrian.
I’ve never handled a 66x/77x but do have a tatty 44x which is superbly smooth on the retrieve and wonder if the high speed larger Cardinals feel similar?

[JAA]

Question for our Cardinal ‘guru’ Beechmerelake but I’m sure others may find it interesting.
Is it possible to swap out the gears on a 66/77 for 66x/77x gears?
I’m assuming the main gear and pinion ( if that’s the correct term for worm drive) would need to be exchanged?
Also, are there any other components that differ between the two groups of reels?
I have a couple of 66s ( one is ‘badged’ Zebco but to all intents and purposes, they’re identical) which I use for barbel fishing.
By slackening the drags, they work extremely well in ‘baitrunner’ mode. A quick spin of the dial to tighten up the drag when I get a take seems to work well but I’ve always found the gear ratio a bit pedestrian.
I’ve never handled a 66x/77x but do have a tatty 44x which is superbly smooth on the retrieve and wonder if the high speed larger Cardinals feel similar?

The 66x and the 44x have very nearly the same retrieve rate, in fact the 44x shaves it!

As far as I can tell frpm the spare parts and diagram, the 77X and 66X have the same parts except for the spool housing. Beechmerelake will know for sure.

[Wallys-Cast]

I am not a big fan of the Cardinal reels but when I bought a 44x for general use I found it too fast for bigger fish, giving it a jerky, pump, wind,pump wind retreive. I bought a 40 (not in the same league as far as build quality is concerned of course) but it was a smoother reel when attached to a larger fish. The 44x was great for match fishing, it could really have a skimmer skimming haha.

The 77x was always thought to be good for beach fishing when retrieving tackle over rocky ground.

Wal.

[Aitch]

Using the drag as a "baitrunner" will impart twist into your mainline, if you can live with straightening it out every few trips its okay...

[Olly]

Does that occur on all reels where the clutch adjustment is used as a 'baitrunner' facility? ie Mitchell - etc.

And do modern Baitrunner reels suffer from the same problem? ie Shimano - Daiwa - Wychwood - etc.

As Wal has stated above high speed reels do not help particularly when playing a large fish, but are OK on a normal retrieve of float/lead/feeder.

There are 'anti-twist' gadgets that remove that twist - especially when spinning! A few casts/retrieves with it eliminates most twist.

[Aitch]

Does that occur on all reels where the clutch adjustment is used as a 'baitrunner' facility? ie Mitchell - etc.

Yes it does

And do modern Baitrunner reels suffer from the same problem? ie Shimano - Daiwa - Wychwood - etc.
not as much as most of the modern reels have rollers in the bale pickup

As Wal has stated above high speed reels do not help particularly when playing a large fish, but are OK on a normal retrieve of float/lead/feeder.

There are 'anti-twist' gadgets that remove that twist - especially when spinning! A few casts/retrieves with it eliminates most twist.

[Banksy]

I have a 44 and a 44X, and as Wal says, I find the 44 a better fishing reel.

[Jeff Smith]

I get just as much (little)line twist on my Shimano baitrunner Bs, as my Cardinal 66s when using them in baitruuner mode, despite the fact that the Shimanos have a very large diameter roller compared to the Abus.
Usually I'm tightened up to a running fish in just a few yards anyway.
It's actually not that much of a problem and is easily remedied by stripping off the line that has been cast out, and reeling it back drawing it through finger and thumb at the end of the session.

[John Milford]

When the spool on a 'fixed spool' reel is allowed to rotate, it will impart exactly the same twist in the line per revolution regardless of which mechanism allows the rotation. (Whether that mechanism is a 'baitrunner' or a loose 'slipping clutch' is completely immaterial).

It is only when 'back-winding' during playing, or anti-reverse off 'handle churning' in the case of a 'run', where the line twist is neutral. (Even then, the line still twists, but the twist 'on' and the twist 'off' cancel each other out).

Rollers reduce only friction, not twist (despite some manufacturers initial physics-defying claims!).

Line twist is an occupational hazard with fixed spool reels and it has ever been thus.

This little passage from L. W. Clark's Angling Coarse Fish (1938) has stuck with me, since reading it at the age of 12:

"I watched a man once float-fishing with a reel of the fixed spool type. He appeared to be getting his tackle well out without difficulty and I remarked on it. 'Yes' said he, 'but they twists yer line cruel'. So I think I will leave the patent reel at that and get on with the straightforward drum type".

[Jeff Smith]

When the spool on a 'fixed spool' reel is allowed to rotate, it will impart exactly the same twist in the line per revolution regardless of which mechanism allows the rotation. (Whether that mechanism is a 'baitrunner' or a loose 'slipping clutch' is completely immaterial).

It is only when 'back-winding' during playing, or anti-reverse off 'handle churning' in the case of a 'run', where the line twist is neutral. (Even then, the line still twists, but the twist 'on' and the twist 'off' cancel each other out).

Rollers reduce only friction, not twist (despite some manufacturers initial physics-defying claims!).

Line twist is an occupational hazard with fixed spool reels and it has ever been thus.

This little passage from L. W. Clark's Angling Coarse Fish (1938) has stuck with me, since reading it at the age of 12:

"I watched a man once float-fishing with a reel of the fixed spool type. He appeared to be getting his tackle well out without difficulty and I remarked on it. 'Yes' said he, 'but they twists yer line cruel'. So I think I will leave the patent reel at that and get on with the straightforward drum type".

lovely quote John.
I find that I get marginally less twist with the 77 (larger diameter spool) than with a 66 but, I emphasise; it’s not an issue at all.
The most ‘runs’ I’ve had in a barbel session is ‘four’ .
It’s ot an easy venue
My question still stands;
Can 66x gears be fitted into a 66??