Palmered Flies

[Santiago]

It's that time of year again for me to try my hand at tying some flies for a trip over the northern border.

The two books I use appear to tie palmered flies differently. One uses just the one hackle for both the body and the head, whilst the other uses two hackles, one for the body and one for the head.

Which method would you advise ? Mainly for soldier palmers!

[Old Man Oakley]

I always prefer the two hackle approach, enabling me to use a longer softer webby feather for the head to give it a leggy appearance. Or use a different colour hackle to the body.

[Nigel Rainton]

Palmered hackles start at the tail of the fly where the tip of the hackle is tied in. That means by the time you get to the head of the fly only the scruffy bit of hackle is left. I use two hackles. You can vary the pattern when using two !

[Santiago]

ok cheers . I'll go for the two hackles as it makes more sense , but still try to keep the dressing to a minimum !

[Iasgair]

I also agree with using the two hackles. In my opinion its easier to work with and the fly comes out cleaner looking.
Plus, the hackle palmered around the shank should be a slightly smaller size than the hackle near the head. If you use the same size hackle the body looks messy and hard to distinguish where the body and thorax of the fly begins.

[Santiago]

Your replies sort of beg the question as to why some writers of fly tying manuals recommend using just the one hackle for fly tying palmered flies. Tie in the thick end at the head and palmer down to the tail, and then fix in place by winding tinsel up the body. Which is a much simpler aproach, and helps keeps the dressing down to a minimum.

I've tried both methods and can't see much difference to be honest . But obviously one has to tie in two hackles if one wishes to use two different colours.

So I ask myself does it really make a difference in catchability? Is there any concrete evidence that it does ?

[Iasgair]

Your replies sort of beg the question as to why some writers of fly tying manuals recommend using just the one hackle for fly tying palmered flies. Tie in the thick end at the head and palmer down to the tail, and then fix in place by winding tinsel up the body. Which is a much simpler aproach, and helps keeps the dressing down to a minimum.

I've tried both methods and can't see much difference to be honest . But obviously one has to tie in two hackles if one wishes to use two different colours.

So I ask myself does it really make a difference in catchability? Is there any concrete evidence that it does ?

I don't believe there is any concrete evidence that it does make a difference. Look at it this way; how many flies out there that are tied represent nothing, but catch fish very well? I think two different color hackles fit into that.

What I do believe is color scheme when it comes to two different hackles to make it possibly mimic the color of an actual insect. But I could be wrong.

The Adams fly is an old pattern that has two different hackle colors, and yet it has proven to be a fly that should be in every fly box. Is it the colors of the hackle, or the shape of the fly that turns fish onto the Adams? I can only guess. All I know is, I have great results with flies with two different color hackles. And I'm good with that.

[Watermole+]

Personally, I'm not much in favour of thickly hackled flies as they tend to shield the hook point, but I do sometimes use two hackles of different colour wound in together like this:

1. Starting from the bend of the hook, tie in an extra short length of tying thread, tails or tag and any desired body material such as flat tinsel (as in a Whickham's Fancy), finally two hackles by the tip; one being dark with very short fibres and the second being lighter with longer-'normal'-length fibres.

2. Keeping turns to the minimum, wind in the flat tinsel, being careful to butt-join the turns and not overlap them. A small gap between turns is actually better.

3. Wind both hackles together, keeping the turns in the gaps between the tinsel, up to the head; give one extra turn and tie in.

Now, this is the hard bit. If you can do it, learn the art of damping and "Doubling" the hackles first, holding the end with a pair of hackle pliers and smoothing one side upward with the fingertip. This makes full use of all the fibres without trapping them underneath each other.
It isn't necessary, but makes for a much nicer and not so dense fly.

The other very important bit is to wind the hackles in with the shiny sides toward the rear. This makes the fibres stand out and not so easily swept flat against the hook, rendering them lifeless in water.

4. Finally, wind that extra thread up the hook, the opposite way to the hackles and tie in. That will help prevent them breaking.
Do this with the aid of a long needle to move fibres out of the way as you wind.

Many flies have palmered hackles up the body but I feel that the less densely tied ones, such as the 'Invicta' are better, which allow each fibre to move and add to the attraction, the very short fibred, darker hackle suggesting a fuzzy 'body' and the longer ones, moving 'legs'..?.

Having said that, there is no set-in-stone way of tying them..
..It's a case of whatever brings the best results to you

Happy tying!

wm+

[Santiago]

Cheers , thanks for your replies! I'm still struggling tying in one hackle at a time never mind two!

What I am learning though is that there appears to be many ways of tying the same pattern. I guess as long as they catch it doesn't really matter !

[Iasgair]

Cheers , thanks for your replies! I'm still struggling tying in one hackle at a time never mind two!

What I am learning though is that there appears to be many ways of tying the same pattern. I guess as long as they catch it doesn't really matter !

It gets easier as you go. You may want to watch Davie McPhail you tube tying the Delaware Adams. Its a great fly that is very versatile. Tied big enough it will represent a grasshopper. When caddis are hatching, cut the tail off and you have a caddis fly.
Its heavily hackled, but its a killer fly. I never leave home without them.
Plus, the heavier the hackle, the better they float on faster turbulent water, like what I tend to fish in.