Superb

[Lea Dweller]

I checked...rod isn't in the 1959, but is in the 1961 Guide.

But it's replaced by the New Superb in the Guides in 1965.

Thank you Nobby, my rod has the green and black label with the stag on it and Superb at the bottom, on the underside of the rod. Am I to presume that it was made between 1960 and 1965? I am somewaht confused though as the New Superb seems to be two piece and more like a Mark IV?

[Nobby]

I checked...rod isn't in the 1959, but is in the 1961 Guide.

But it's replaced by the New Superb in the Guides in 1965.


The New Superb is also listed in the 1964 Catalogue.


Now the Guides were usually printed to cover a two year period, but there is supposed to be a 1964 Guide...I've never seen one, never seen an image of one. So the longest the Superb might have been offered is 1960 to 1964.

Now I'm not exactly certain when Lee joined Top Tackle, the amalgamation of Youngs and Allcocks, but Lee's MD, Kevin Lee, writes the foreword for the 1965 Guide, so I'm guessing they joined up with the other two in late 1964 as the Guides cover a two year period usually and are thought to have been printed well in advance.

However, there's two flies in the ointment.


Firstly, as shown in Rod Turner's amended list there are Superbs that are two piece rods....seemingly a New Superb before it was given that name, they look identical.......even though both Guides and Catalogues describe the New Superb as a rod featuring feature of both Allcock's Superb and Lee's Carp.


Secondly, a three piece green whipped Superb should therefore pre-date the amalgamation........yet you tell me your rod has a black and pale green transfer which we believe to be Allcocks colours after the amalgamation as they were Lee's colours for years before that.....

So, somehow you seem to have a rod that had already been replaced by both the two piece uncatalogued Superb and the New Superb......but with a transfer from the time of the second later replacement.......just plain weird!


There's been a couple of things in recent years that's made me wonder if Allcocks truly did take on Lee's colours at the time of amalgamation or if they copied them earlier...but why on earth would they copy a rival's livery?


It could be simply that an unsold three-piece Superb was given a new transfer before finally getting sent out to a tackle dealer........otherwise we have to add another rod to Rod Turner's list....Superb, three piece rod, Green whipped, circa 1963-'64, post-merger transfer.


Pass the paracetamol.......

[Lea Dweller]

Thank you for all the information Nobby ,it is certainly a puzzle! I will bring the rod to Romsey and Redditch and try to solve the mystery, if it can be solved. The rod certainly seems to be genuine, I cannot imagine someone "faking" a rod like this!

[Lea Dweller]

Here are some pictures of the three piece Superb that might confirm what both myself and Nobby have commented on, I hope that they help.

[Dave Burr]

Do you think they could have been a tad more imaginative in the naming department?

I'd love to see your three piece Lee, maybe I'll catch up with you at Redditch

[Lea Dweller]

Thank you Nobby, Rod and Dave, does this suggest that my rod was only made for a year (1963-4) or am I misunderstanding what you are saying?

[Nobby]

Well it's a stab in the dark really.....

The post merger transfer....which clearly says Superb on it as opposed to being a un-named transfer and an additional one for the 'Superb' name, suggests a rod post-merger.


Just when that merger happened is unsure. I used to think 1965 as it has happened in the 1965 Allcocks Guide, but it's become clear these days that the Guides were written well in advance...probably late Summer of the year before.

But your rod with the post merger transfer rather squeezes the time the two piece rod Superb can have been available for......even though I've seen two of them and Dave has one too.......weirdly, your rod is the rarest of them, yet was available for the longest period of time.....

However......another fly in the ointment arrives: If you go back to the fourth page of this thread you will see a post by me describing a Superb two piece rod I have examined. I can clearly recall, and you can see it in the images on the link to The Path forum, that JAA's rod has 'generic' post-merger transfer, with a separate transfer for the word 'Superb' added over it.
That rather suggests that post-merger transfers for the Superb weren't made, and had to be 'cobbled together'...yet you have a rod we presume must be earlier and yet it appears to have a one-piece post-merger transfer on it..........


It's enough to drive a man to drink........


edit: Unless yours does have a separate transfer for the rod name? Looking again at your first image I see that perhaps it might?. In which case it is one of the last of the two-piece rods made with the Superb name. The rarest of the rods to bear that name, even if it was available for the longest time.
The next version of the Superb, and the New Superb that replaced it are far more akin to Walker's Mark IV Avon rod with their 'through' action.
It's strange that your rod should have serrated ferrules ( quite a bit of work) but only 4 intermediate rings which suggests economy...unless your rod is very stiff and has little bend in it? Yet it's reputed to be able to fish 8lb lines....

[Lea Dweller]

Well it's a stab in the dark really.....

The post merger transfer....which clearly says Superb on it as opposed to being a un-named transfer and an additional one for the 'Superb' name, suggests a rod post-merger.


Just when that merger happened is unsure. I used to think 1965 as it has happened in the 1965 Allcocks Guide, but it's become clear these days that the Guides were written well in advance...probably late Summer of the year before.

But your rod with the post merger transfer rather squeezes the time the two piece rod Superb can have been available for......even though I've seen two of them and Dave has one too.......weirdly, your rod is the rarest of them, yet was available for the longest period of time.....

However......another fly in the ointment arrives: If you go back to the fourth page of this thread you will see a post by me describing a Superb two piece rod I have examined. I can clearly recall, and you can see it in the images on the link to The Path forum, that JAA's rod has 'generic' post-merger transfer, with a separate transfer for the word 'Superb' added over it.
That rather suggests that post-merger transfers for the Superb weren't made, and had to be 'cobbled together'...yet you have a rod we presume must be earlier and yet it appears to have a one-piece post-merger transfer on it..........


It's enough to drive a man to drink........


edit: Unless yours does have a separate transfer for the rod name? Looking again at your first image I see that perhaps it might?. In which case it is one of the last of the two-piece rods made with the Superb name. The rarest of the rods to bear that name, even if it was available for the longest time.
The next version of the Superb, and the New Superb that replaced it are far more akin to Walker's Mark IV Avon rod with their 'through' action.
It's strange that your rod should have serrated ferrules ( quite a bit of work) but only 4 intermediate rings which suggests economy...unless your rod is very stiff and has little bend in it? Yet it's reputed to be able to fish 8lb lines....

Hello Nobby, I have just been looking very closely at the transfer on my rod and does appear to have a separate little piece with superb on it added to the main label, as the left hand edge of the small sticker doesn't line up square with the edge of the main label? What could this mean?

[Lea Dweller]

Thank you Nobby, Rod and Dave, does this suggest that my rod was only made for a year (1963-4) or am I misunderstanding what you are saying?

Based on a combination of guesswork and deduction from available evidence, within the space of a couple of years, it appears the superb went through a number of changes:
- The company merged with Lee, and so the badge changed from the old gold oval to the Lee-style black and green.
- Then the rod was re-designed as a MkIV-style 2-piece, the earliest examples of which were badged the same as the first post-merger 3-pieces (i.e. "Superb").
- It was then re-named the "New Superb", with matching transfers.
- Subsequently, replaced (?) by the "Carp Superb" and "Avon Superb", and eventually the twin-tip Carpavon.
Some of these changes seem to have happened between Guides, and some of them are undocumented, leaving us to guess at the exact chronology and how many of each were made.

Thank you Rod,Just to confirm my earlier comment about the "two piece" label, I am posting two pictures that would suggest that the Superb part of the transfer was a separate piece added to the base of the main label? I don't know if this will confuse matters or not?

[Nobby]

I must say that I am surprised to finally see a three piece Superb and to learn it has a pale green transfer.

If you look back to the third page of this thread you will find Rod's image lifted from a Guide clearly showing an oval transfer.

We can at least be sure your Superb is one of the last made even if we can't date it.

As to the changes in the rod.......maybe Lee felt their Carp had been copied by Allcocks when the latter changed the rod to a two piece and when the companies merged it was agreed to rename the rod to the New Superb and give them some credit for its design?

A rare rod......a very rare rod and a surprise transfer too.....as that chap on the telly says: " Show me another!"