The Traditional Fisherman's Forum

A Cheshunt article from the Fishing Gazzette 1951, courtesy of Mike Wilson.

So leaving the Carp but removing a large number or Bream and Roach for the Thames. Very interesting, not only for us history buffs but also for the Thames anglers to know their fish's origins..... :thumb:

I've come across another Cheshunt netting photograph (digitised 35mm colour transparency)

Even the fish in Brayton Pool, which advertises them as wildies, are unfortunately not the real deal.

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The carp in Brayton Pond don't look like wildies to me either. That said, it is a nice pond and it is ancient and I believe the strain to be ancient as well, here's an example...

Dontknowmuch wrote:Kevin Clifford has conducted some quite in depth research concerning 'wild' carp and in his opinion there are no genuine wildies here in the UK.

Help, please. I don't understand if you have Kevin Clifford saying that there are no pure strains left of the fish that anglers call 'wildies', or that carp of any kind are not native British fish.

alaudacorax wrote:

Dontknowmuch wrote:Kevin Clifford has conducted some quite in depth research concerning 'wild' carp and in his opinion there are no genuine wildies here in the UK.

Help, please. I don't understand if you have Kevin Clifford saying that there are no pure strains left of the fish that anglers call 'wildies', or that carp of any kind are not native British fish.

Buy the latest edition of Fennel's Journal (wild carp special), you'll get some answers...

scott wrote:

alaudacorax wrote:

Dontknowmuch wrote:Kevin Clifford has conducted some quite in depth research concerning 'wild' carp and in his opinion there are no genuine wildies here in the UK.

Help, please. I don't understand if you have Kevin Clifford saying that there are no pure strains left of the fish that anglers call 'wildies', or that carp of any kind are not native British fish.

Buy the latest edition of Fennel's Journal (wild carp special), you'll get some answers...

Oh, I know a little of the history of British carp - it's simply that I genuinely don't understand what Dontknowmuch is saying, here.

Having said that, I googled Fennel's Journal and the site looked interesting, so I ordered that wild carp edition as a taster; so thanks for pointing me that way, scott.

alaudacorax wrote:

scott wrote:

alaudacorax wrote:

Dontknowmuch wrote:Kevin Clifford has conducted some quite in depth research concerning 'wild' carp and in his opinion there are no genuine wildies here in the UK.

Help, please. I don't understand if you have Kevin Clifford saying that there are no pure strains left of the fish that anglers call 'wildies', or that carp of any kind are not native British fish.

Buy the latest edition of Fennel's Journal (wild carp special), you'll get some answers...

Oh, I know a little of the history of British carp - it's simply that I genuinely don't understand what Dontknowmuch is saying, here.

Having said that, I googled Fennel's Journal and the site looked interesting, so I ordered that wild carp edition as a taster; so thanks for pointing me that way, scott.

I think DKM is alluding to Clifford's statement that the original Danubian race of carp no longer exists in the UK, which may or may not be true. Some argue it never did. I think it's an irrelevancy anyway; one person's interpretation of 'true' wild carp may not be the same as another. To most anglers, a wild carp is a long, lean, fully scaled fish with no pronounced hump back, having slightly smaller scales than the king common variety, a yellowish rather than reddish colouring around the belly and underfins, and rarely grows much over ten pounds. Feral carp is perhaps a better term, as it appeases the pedants who subscribe to Clifford's view whilst still being recognisable to most anglers as what they have come to call wildies, rightly or wrongly.

Incidentally, the oft-repeated statement that no wild carp can exist in a water that contains (or contained) king carp is not only a genetic over-simplification, but also contradicts the extinction theory - even though both are sometimes propounded by the same 'expert'! Shades of clutching at straws to support a weak argument perhaps? A lake full of wild carp is not at all like a bucket of white paint into which the introduction of a handful of king carp (which can be likened to some black paint) produces some pale grey paint. Carp will interbreed for sure, but there will be three possible pairings; wild x wild, wild x king and king x king. The weakest progeny will be that of the king x king pairings, lacking the vigour of the natural strains. The strongest, in theory, will be the wild x wild progeny, but even if the survival rate of all three groups is the same, the resulting generation will still contain a percentage of true wild carp, as will each successive generation.

Right - got it - thanks, GOS.

Just come across this.

I had both the pleasure to fish the water once and the dreadful act of removal of all the stock! Some, although how many I am not sure, are still alive in what became their new home.

They are probably the fish introduced after the death/total wipeout during the Great Freeze (63/64?) and carp were asked for by the Society in the weekly magazine Fishing.