Reel Grease

[Michael]

Folk mention 3-1 oil for lubrication, but the centre pin maker Chris Lythe rejects it, quoting from his site
"NEVER use WD40, 3 in 1, or silicone oils which will harm the spindle and invalidate the guarantee."
I`ve always wondered about 3-1 oil, why. So I did a bit of digging around on the internet and found an article relating to lubricating vintage fans, which may throw light on the matter. It seems or may to come down to the fact that Red 3-1 oil containing Naphtha. The article states, Its not recommended on bearings etc, as the Naptha gets the dirt in suspension, then evaporates leaving dirt on the bearing surface. I`ve included the link, Item 3;
http://www.fancollectors.org/info/Lubrication.htm
Naptha come from the citronella oil, which give the 3:1 its distinctive smell.....

[Mark]

I use Gary Mills oil, he makes centre pins so his blend of reel oil should be something you can trust in.

[Stathamender]

It seems or may to come down to the fact that Red 3-1 oil containing Naphtha. The article states, Its not recommended on bearings etc, as the Naptha gets the dirt in suspension, then evaporates leaving dirt on the bearing surface......Naptha come from the citronella oil, which give the 3:1 its distinctive smell.....

Any lubricant will 'get dirt in suspension' in that a particle will float in the film of lubricant between the two lubricated parts. All lubricants will wear off or dry off the lubricated surfaces in one way or another over time leaving the particles behind if the surfaces aren't cleaned and relubricated. The oil will drop out of a grease leaving only the 'soap' behind which will harden. Regular routines of cleanliness and lubrication, designed for the lubricants used and the surfaces used on, are not, as I've said before, mutually exclusive.

As for the Nap(h)tha thing: 'naphtha' is really only a generic term to refer to various flammable liquid hydrocarbon mixtures, usually produced by distillation. In English, at least, it doesn't identify anything specific these days. Citronella oil http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citronella_oil is something entirely different. If you want to look at it this way citronella also comes from a sustainable source, unlike hydrocarbon products, and is mainly produced in areas of the world where poverty is commonplace through underdevelopment.

In many ways the internet meme has become the modern old wives' tale in the same way that trolling has replaced anonymous 'poison pen' letters. The (unevidenced) assertion on the fan repair site is repeated on the Amazon.com entry for 3-in-1 and no doubt in many other places. These days I use either sewing machine oil (generic from John Lewis) or ReelX oil on centrepin spindles and in ball bearings, ReelX grease on gears and slides in fixed spools. For many years before this I used 3-in-1 on the former and Vaseline on the latter with no problems.

Given the many millions of users of 3-in-1 out there (many of them no doubt engineers and chemists) and the major scientific and commercial interest in producing ever more effective and safer lubricants, if these assertions were true I think we would have heard rather more about this problem by now other than a note on an amateur website.

I also think that manufacturers who specifically bar the use of certain lubricants (that thing about voiding the guarantee is almost certainly unenforceable at law) should produce at the same time the scientific evidence to back their assertions.

[Nobby]

I've used 3-in1 Oil for so long I really have no issues with it. Possibly the bearing in a fan encounters unique circumstances in that application...maybe the air current does something? Lord knows they attract dust well enough to be a room filter! But then I'm only using this oil in simple operations....a reel handle knob for example. I did use it for centrepins happily for many years and only moved on when I found better stuff and Gary Mills' is about the best of the lot....just better than reel X Oil.

All oil holds dirt in suspension....it's supposed to. If you look at engine oils, for example, they have an API rating ( American Petroleum Institute) API-(SG) and before it API-(SC) ratings were specifically about the ability to hold dirt in suspension and not produce a sludge.

In a reel we're looking for the ability to maintain a lubricating layer both under movement ( not getting thrown off by the movement of the gear) and under shear ( not breaking down the film under the pressure created by the gears interaction with another gear)

And you won't find much better than Reel X for that.

Where I wouldn't use grease is, for example, bail arm pivots. They attract so much dust that they dry out and gum up. This is where I would use 3-in1 Oil, but only a tiny amount.......on my own reels I run them dry, but I don't feel that's appropriate for a customer's reel....I'm happy to strip my reels whenever they need it, but a customers reel should last a season at the very least....hopefully many of them.


I should just add that the API codes above were for the purposes of explaining how long ago dirt suspension was an issue...they are obsolete now! Just in case you find an old can of API (SC) and put it in your modern car....it'll bu**er up your catalytic converter!

http://www.pqiamerica.com/devilsindisguise.htm


The letter last was used in alphabetical order....they're up to N now!

http://www.americanpetroleuminstitute.c ... -standards

[ReelMaker]

Dear friends,just a quick mention here,Hardys recommend a candle rubbed on the joints of C fibre rods to prevent them sticking together.Reelmaker

[Michael]

Interesting discussion point though, it was more why some folk object to it so vehemently, though I`ve never used the stuff. I was told by an engineer many years ago it was, lets say mediocre and there were much better products on the market, so I`ll leave the explanation, as to the pros and cons to the experts.....or you two!
My lubrication regime comes down to, and in no particular order, Reel X oil & the soft and medium grease, Ardent, ZX1, Singer oil and a few small bottles of Lewtham oil, for pin & reel.

[Stathamender]

I too wonder why some folk object to it so vehemently and I wish they'd tell us why (other than stuff about naphtha from citronella oil). I suspect your engineer friend was speaking from a professional view point and it was because 3-in-1 is essentially a general purpose lubricant rather than a specialist one of the kind used in his work.

Not a lubrication expert rather an expert in unsupported and unlikely assertions from my former employ as a Civil Service policy analyst. Got to see a lot of those in that job.

[Michael]

In agreement Ian....
I spent 39 years, in not a too dissimilar field, analysing, interviewing and when required prosecuting, as a Sen.Trading Standards Enforcement officer. Now much to my relief, I`ve been happily retired for nearly a year and I`m relaxing my way to....whatever the future holds!

[Stathamender]

I spent 39 years, in not a too dissimilar field, analysing, interviewing and when required prosecuting, as a Sen.Trading Standards Enforcement officer

I think prosecution would be the very least I would favour for quite a few of the policy people, politicians, SpAds and assorted snake-oil salesmen I met in my time in government. If these people had been active in any kind of business they would certainly have attracted your attention and probably that of the Fraud Squad too. Thinking back on them it's a shame we no longer have transportation as a legal penalty.

[MHC]

I remember an in depth thread on the Clarks Bamboo forum concerning reel oil and grease, I will try to find it. I do not know of any oil or grease formulated specifically for reels, apart from synthetic (ABU, Penn etc), is there a reason for this? Bicycle shop state of the art lube seems also to be mostly synthetic, bike parts having high performance requirements plus a combination of plastic and moving metal parts.

I did turn a white horn reel knob for a fly reel and backed it with bronze, I felt that silicote ABU oil would suit it better than smelly 3 in 1..