Giant Roach

[Crucian]

Dave, the lake I referred to is Combwich, on the Bridgwater book.

[Crucian]

Sorry to hijack your thread Mark. Good thread

[Banksy]

How long can roach live, given the absence of predators?

My syndicate lake used to be a superb roach fishery, with fish averaging about 1lb on some days.
They were those big chunky 'dog' roach with attitude, it was almost like catching a different species.

About 10 years ago, I took Barbelseeker Peter there as a guest, and he described it as 'The best roach pond I know".
As always, you imagine that this situation will last forever. Not so.

Suddenly, six years ago the bigger roach started to disappear.
At first we feared disease or a water pollution issue, but the roach of 8oz and less seemed to be totally unaffected.
We blamed otters - there are plenty of those in the area near the River Hull and Leven Canal - but the otter fence ruled that out. Cormorants had been seen occasionally, but the bailiff was present much of the time to 'discourage' them.
The pond had contained very few pike,but then the pike numbers did increase. Allegedly, another local pond had been netted, the pike removed and dumped into our pond. But with the involvement of the EA, an intensive campaign saw those pike numbers greatly reduced, to the point where I have not once had a roach taken by a pike in the last year.

The pond is about 12 acres in size, and was originally dug as a clay pit in the 1950's. Gravel seams were found, and gravel was then extracted for about 20 years. The pond was left 'fallow', unstocked, for a number of years, before a number of roach were transferred from Hornsea Mere in the 1970's.
The roach of Hornsea Mere have a good pedigree, with a fish of 3lb 10oz caught by Wilf Cutting holding the British record in 1917. Admittedly that's a long time ago, but those genes persist, and I know of a number of other ponds where Hornsea Mere roach and their offspring have reached impressive proportions.

My theory is that the original stocking grew extremely well in the rich, mature waters of the disused gravel pit.
They bred, and the young fish also grew large very quickly, given the very low stocking density and the ample availability of natural food.
Eventually a balance point must have been reached, where the roach population became stable, and with the reduced natural food available, their growth rates slowed.
But that original stocking and their immediate descendants remained, and I believe that those were the big roach we were fortunate enough to be catching. Until they simply started to die of old age.

That would have made those big roach around 30 to 40 years of age. Is that possible?
I have a tank of goldfish at home. I know that two of those goldfish are over 20 years old, and no more than 4" long.
How big might they be, if they had spent the last 20 years with limitless food and a 12 acre fish tank?
Environment is everything.

[Tengisgol]

I caught a small river bream in 2005 (just short of twelve pounds) and a friend recognised the distinctive lump on its tail. A group of bream had lived on that deep bend or thereabouts for a long time. He identified it as a fish he’d caught numerous times from the 1970’s (seven pounds then) and then again in the eighties and nineties. He then caught it after me at a bigger weight (well, it would be wouldn’t it!). But that would make that bream thirty to forty years old.

[Dave Burr]

Dave, the lake I referred to is Combwich, on the Bridgwater book.

I know it well but mainly for the bream fishing

[Lea Dweller]

Having watched the video and listened to Mark's comments, I think that big stillwaters are more likely produce huge roach than rivers. Sadly many of our rivers have suffered from pollution/abstraction, so maybe the big trout waters could hold the key?

[DaceAce]

How long can roach live, given the absence of predators?

My syndicate lake used to be a superb roach fishery, with fish averaging about 1lb on some days.
They were those big chunky 'dog' roach with attitude, it was almost like catching a different species.

About 10 years ago, I took Barbelseeker Peter there as a guest, and he described it as 'The best roach pond I know".
As always, you imagine that this situation will last forever. Not so.

Suddenly, six years ago the bigger roach started to disappear.
At first we feared disease or a water pollution issue, but the roach of 8oz and less seemed to be totally unaffected.
We blamed otters - there are plenty of those in the area near the River Hull and Leven Canal - but the otter fence ruled that out. Cormorants had been seen occasionally, but the bailiff was present much of the time to 'discourage' them.
The pond had contained very few pike,but then the pike numbers did increase. Allegedly, another local pond had been netted, the pike removed and dumped into our pond. But with the involvement of the EA, an intensive campaign saw those pike numbers greatly reduced, to the point where I have not once had a roach taken by a pike in the last year.

The pond is about 12 acres in size, and was originally dug as a clay pit in the 1950's. Gravel seams were found, and gravel was then extracted for about 20 years. The pond was left 'fallow', unstocked, for a number of years, before a number of roach were transferred from Hornsea Mere in the 1970's.
The roach of Hornsea Mere have a good pedigree, with a fish of 3lb 10oz caught by Wilf Cutting holding the British record in 1917. Admittedly that's a long time ago, but those genes persist, and I know of a number of other ponds where Hornsea Mere roach and their offspring have reached impressive proportions.

My theory is that the original stocking grew extremely well in the rich, mature waters of the disused gravel pit.
They bred, and the young fish also grew large very quickly, given the very low stocking density and the ample availability of natural food.
Eventually a balance point must have been reached, where the roach population became stable, and with the reduced natural food available, their growth rates slowed.
But that original stocking and their immediate descendants remained, and I believe that those were the big roach we were fortunate enough to be catching. Until they simply started to die of old age.

That would have made those big roach around 30 to 40 years of age. Is that possible?
I have a tank of goldfish at home. I know that two of those goldfish are over 20 years old, and no more than 4" long.
How big might they be, if they had spent the last 20 years with limitless food and a 12 acre fish tank?
Environment is everything.

The evidence for the longevity of roach is that around 14 to 16 years is exceptional, and 18 to 20 years just about possible, but I think it extrememly unlikely any roach have ever lived for 30 years.

On the Dorset Frome there was a stocking of Nadder roach in 1968 that subsequently bred to produce a very strong year class that was prolific as 2oz fish in autumn 1972 and these fish were very big fish in 1981 to 84 but very few in number by 1986.

[Ian]

How long can roach live, given the absence of predators?

My syndicate lake used to be a superb roach fishery, with fish averaging about 1lb on some days.
They were those big chunky 'dog' roach with attitude, it was almost like catching a different species.

About 10 years ago, I took Barbelseeker Peter there as a guest, and he described it as 'The best roach pond I know".
As always, you imagine that this situation will last forever. Not so.

Suddenly, six years ago the bigger roach started to disappear.
At first we feared disease or a water pollution issue, but the roach of 8oz and less seemed to be totally unaffected.
We blamed otters - there are plenty of those in the area near the River Hull and Leven Canal - but the otter fence ruled that out. Cormorants had been seen occasionally, but the bailiff was present much of the time to 'discourage' them.
The pond had contained very few pike,but then the pike numbers did increase. Allegedly, another local pond had been netted, the pike removed and dumped into our pond. But with the involvement of the EA, an intensive campaign saw those pike numbers greatly reduced, to the point where I have not once had a roach taken by a pike in the last year.

The pond is about 12 acres in size, and was originally dug as a clay pit in the 1950's. Gravel seams were found, and gravel was then extracted for about 20 years. The pond was left 'fallow', unstocked, for a number of years, before a number of roach were transferred from Hornsea Mere in the 1970's.
The roach of Hornsea Mere have a good pedigree, with a fish of 3lb 10oz caught by Wilf Cutting holding the British record in 1917. Admittedly that's a long time ago, but those genes persist, and I know of a number of other ponds where Hornsea Mere roach and their offspring have reached impressive proportions.

My theory is that the original stocking grew extremely well in the rich, mature waters of the disused gravel pit.
They bred, and the young fish also grew large very quickly, given the very low stocking density and the ample availability of natural food.
Eventually a balance point must have been reached, where the roach population became stable, and with the reduced natural food available, their growth rates slowed.
But that original stocking and their immediate descendants remained, and I believe that those were the big roach we were fortunate enough to be catching. Until they simply started to die of old age.

That would have made those big roach around 30 to 40 years of age. Is that possible?
I have a tank of goldfish at home. I know that two of those goldfish are over 20 years old, and no more than 4" long.
How big might they be, if they had spent the last 20 years with limitless food and a 12 acre fish tank?
Environment is everything.

Roach don’t live that long banksy, and that’s exactly why we don’t see many very big roach. The roach in lochnaw were found to be around 17yrs old. Those were fish that had no angling pressure until it opened to fishing around 2011/12.
The further north, the more unlikely it is for roach to grow to 2lb + proportions. The most likely reason for this is the harsher conditions means less natural food. The window of opportunity to catch a very big roach is also a factor. Even during what I would call a mild winter, our waters begin to cool from September and don’t start to heat up again til mid to late may. Sept/oct are good months for roach fishing, but after that there’s around 6 months of scant pickings for both fish and angler. Luckily there’s another fish that can frustrate the life out of me during those lean times, the grayling. They also don’t have the longevity to grow very big. I wouldn’t have it any other way