Crucians in France

[Mole-Patrol]

Crucian carp are one of those species that should bring a smile to any anglers face. I experienced my first will it-won't it crucian bite around 1970 at a small farm pond between Barnsley and Wakefield. When we moved to France in 2012 we bought an old camping-car and that was pressed into use not just for our joint trips, but when Little Wife went back to the UK twice a year to visit the coven I took our dog and cat on fishing adventures and one of the places we went to was Marans in the Charente-Maritime, not too far from La Rochelle to which it is joined by a canal. Marans is a paradise for the angler. It is an inland port much like Boston and surrounded by canals and drains all of which are home to the chubby little fish the French call Carassins.



They teem in large shoals in the sometimes saline waters that surround many of the towns and villages of the area. You will see them rubbing shoulders with mullet, chub and roach in the canal that runs through the town itself. In the La Rochelle canal you will find French pêcheurs ignoring the possibility of a 40lb carp or 100lb catfish and happy to pull out endless carassins using light pole tactics. 50 kg bags are not uncommon and 100 kg bags are possible as the average size of carassin is well over a kilo and they are obliging biters.

As you drive towards Marennes and the coast you drive for many kilometres alongside another canal where you see storks nesting in the electricity pylons. You can pull in anywhere alongside the road, or into the adjoining lanes and fish for carassins. It doesn't matter where you fish, they will oblige.Just outside Marennes, the area called Le Lindron where pêcheurs often catch in excess of 100 carassins in between being snapped by the many large carp that inhabit the same canal.



If that isn't a crucian angler's dream venue I don't know what is

[Olly]

The 3lb rudd that also live there in the Marais Poitevin! Been for about 15 years now as my angling club friend had his gite in Courcon but yet to get my 3+ - close, very close within a couple of ounces - but not yet!

Had carrasins to 4lb and rudd to just under 3lb from Sevre Niortaise - fishable from Niort to Marans along the canal bank with parking mostly behind your swim. Plus sections fishable at night for big carp. And cats if you only use boilies! Huge bags of bream on the feeder in various areas even in a heatwave a year ago for me - 40C!

The canal from Marans to La Rochelle was dredged a couple of years ago but was idyllic and overgrown beforehand with easy tench fishing.

As to being true rounded crucians as found in Godalming's water, Marsh Farm, they are not as you can see. However they do fight well and are very obliging taking a variety of baits. But give me the rudd - monsters IF you can find them!

The very well stocked tackle shop in Fontenay Le Comte sells bait including maggots and pinkies in bulk if you order. The array of lures for sandre, black bass, etc is quite big to say the least

[Tengisgol]

I think these may be Carassius Gibelio (Gibel carp) as opposed to Carassius Carassius (Crucian)?

[Duckett]

I think these may be Carassius Gibelio (Gibel carp) as opposed to Carassius Carassius (Crucian)?

According to my field guide, colour and scale count along lateral line agree with your assessment. I’ve never seen one in the flesh but lovely looking fish.

Mind you, given the growing range of none pure Crucians we see in the U.K., positive identification gets trickier and trickier.

Phil

[Tengisgol]

I think these may be Carassius Gibelio (Gibel carp) as opposed to Carassius Carassius (Crucian)?

According to my field guide, colour and scale count along lateral line agree with your assessment. I’ve never seen one in the flesh but lovely looking fish.

Mind you, given the growing range of none pure Crucians we see in the U.K., positive identification gets trickier and trickier.

Phil

There is a lot of concern about them contaminating the Crucian line if they get here but, in their home, they’re cracking fish. Caught some once in the Arno in Florence.

The main thrust of the thread is cracking too. I’ve holidayed around La Rochelle for years with the family, and driven up and down those rivers and canals, and not for one moment thought the fishing could be that good. I might have to put a few rods in next time, thanks for sharing your knowledge chaps.

[Duckett]

I think these may be Carassius Gibelio (Gibel carp) as opposed to Carassius Carassius (Crucian)?

According to my field guide, colour and scale count along lateral line agree with your assessment. I’ve never seen one in the flesh but lovely looking fish.

Mind you, given the growing range of none pure Crucians we see in the U.K., positive identification gets trickier and trickier.

Phil

There is a lot of concern about them contaminating the Crucian line if they get here but, in their home, they’re cracking fish. Caught some once in the Arno in Florence.

The main thrust of the thread is cracking too. I’ve holidayed around La Rochelle for years with the family, and driven up and down those rivers and canals, and not for one moment thought the fishing could be that good. I might have to put a few rods in next time, thanks for sharing your knowledge chaps.

Indeed. My fishing when in France has so far been limited to lure fishing in the salty stuff but I may have to change that given some of the reports like this one that I’ve seen here.

Phil

[Olly]

Gibel - Prussian and Crucian --- a long thread about them on here -
""The Prussian carp, silver Prussian carp or Gibel carp (Carassius gibelio)""

We do have - I think - Gibel carp here already. Plus the others mentioned in the above thread which goes into great detail.

There are several Forum Members who visit/live in various parts - and fish - who are always ready to help!

There is an excellent book - Ou Pecher en France by Henri Limouzin - with every or almost every river stream in France. Although dated 2004 is gives local rivers/canals to anywhere you may be in France! Plus the usual fish found in them with 40,000 sites. It is in French but that would help in learning the french fishing lingo! It seems to be available via Am*z*n - very cheaply now.

All you need is a rod licence - Carte de Peche. Annual 2020 Licence is £80 for a max of 4 coarse rods on all public waters in all French Departments except 5 I think - ie 90 "counties"! (There is a weekly licence option of about £20+.) If you are travelling around or visiting for longer than fortnight the annual one probably works out the best.

Remember that you do not need a Licence for most Private Carp waters.

[Duckett]

Gibel - Prussian and Crucian --- a long thread about them on here -
""The Prussian carp, silver Prussian carp or Gibel carp (Carassius gibelio)""

We do have - I think - Gibel carp here already. Plus the others mentioned in the above thread which goes into great detail.

There are several Forum Members who visit/live in various parts - and fish - who are always ready to help!

There is an excellent book - Ou Pecher en France by Henri Limouzin - with every or almost every river stream in France. Although dated 2004 is gives local rivers/canals to anywhere you may be in France! Plus the usual fish found in them with 40,000 sites. It is in French but that would help in learning the french fishing lingo! It seems to be available via Am*z*n - very cheaply now.

All you need is a rod licence - Carte de Peche. Annual 2020 Licence is £80 for a max of 4 coarse rods on all public waters in all French Departments except 5 I think - ie 90 "counties"! (There is a weekly licence option of about £20+.) If you are travelling around or visiting for longer than fortnight the annual one probably works out the best.

Remember that you do not need a Licence for most Private Carp waters.

Can of worms the Prussian/Gibel Carp! Thanks for posting, never read that thread before.

Phil

[Mole-Patrol]

The carassins are actually classed as carassius carassius in French fishing journals and fishery department information. Like many fish vary in colour dependent on their environment. If you catch them further inland in the Marais-Poitevin they are more golden. The fish in my photographs were caught in the saline part of the Sèvre Niortaise river system. Roach in that area are like a polarised version with blood red fins and really bright silver scales. The salt must agree with them.

Just a point regards the Carte de Pèche. If you do buy a Carte de Pèche and intend to fish in departments other than the one you have bought the CdP in, you also need the Carte Halieutique vignette. That is €15 for the year, cheaper for shorter holiday permits and also allows you to fish many communal lakes and parcours de pèche on rivers where the CH vignette is mandatory. You don't need a CdP for fishing the sea or tidal waters below the official demarkation or mer / douce (sea / fresh water). In Marans that is the tidal barrier near to the yatching school and the canal locks in the town itself. The saline element varies dependent on time of year and the recent weather conditions. In winter the fresh water usually extends well below the locks and barrier but in summer when a lot of anglers visit the place the saline part is right up to and into the town reaches.

Some interesting facts about Marans; firstly it was sacked by the Vikings in the 10th century. Those marauding northerners also penetrated right up the Loire system to Limoges and the Charente to Angoulême . Around the same time work began to drain the salt marshes and much of the land around modern day Marans was reclaimed from the sea by monks. In the town reaches of the canal there is a quay called Quai de Cheveux, the Cheveux element meaning hair. It came about when Canadian sailing ships bringing furs needed a lot of ballast as the cargo was relatively light. On the return journey the ships were loaded with salt, wine and brandy and so unloaded the rocks used as ballast. The town used these rocks to build the quay. The canal that links Marans to La Rochelle was intended to extend to Niort. In the event the extension was abandoned as it took 82 years to build the 25 km canal using forced prisoner labour by which time the railway had made it redundant. The canal now holds carp larger than Waler's record along with its resident carassins.

If you want to find places to fish in France all you have to do is type the word 'Peche' and the departmental number into your favourite search engine and it will link to the departmental fisheries website. From there you can download a fishing map that lists rivers and lakes by category and gives the location of places you can fish, called 'Parcours'. It also allows you to browse the regulations and purchase your Carte de Peche online, although I would suggest that you get it directly from a Tourist Information office as quite often they have information of local fishing spots and will be able to parlez anglais. Many of the departmental web sites now have an English option.

[DaceAce]

The fish shown in Clive's original post are not crucians, probably gibel carp.

I was on a long meeting of the National Crucian Conservation Project yesterday and we're pretty certain we have gibel carp in the UK based on DNA evidence from fish I caught some time ago. We've yet to confirm that they're breeding in the UK and it may be that a large shipment of gibel carp came in from the Continent about 15 years ago (the fact that in 2007 I caught a vimba from the same pond suggests this). Further action is being considered regarding this but nothing definite yet, partly due to the lock-down.