Eyed or spade end?

[Riparian]

Having used eyed hooks down to 18 for many more years than I care to mention, I've spent the afternoon mastering, eventually, a hook-tyer to produce some 14s, 16s and 18s to 2lb and 3lb nylon. Since the season opened I haven't been able to put a net of anything together, and as I'm now thinking about roach, it being wheat and elderberry time, I wondered whether fishing lighter than usual might make a difference.

But my question is, does anyone think - or even better, know - whether the spade end hooks being that fraction lighter and less bulky, make any difference to roach? I'm fishing rivers and drains with little or no movement this time of year, and always have a few sessions fishing the Sheffield style, just for old time's sake.

[Catfish.017]

I think it depends a lot on how educated your Roach are, and whether or not you hope to catch on a falling bait where a fine wire spade end will give a more natural presentation. The lake I fished in my teens, cutting my match fishing teeth, held very wary Roach. I can remember some of the lads using Size 26 Au'Lion d'or spades to outwit the blighters!

[Liphook]

I've always thought that the real advantage of the spade end hook was the inline effect of the knot being formed down, thus effectively shortening, the shank. Also to my eye there is a less obvious profile/outline than with eyed and knotted arrangements

[RBTraditional]

I whip my eyed hooks on, first passing the line though the eye, forming a loop along the shank, six turns up to the eye and then back down through the loop, pull tight after wetting... job done, lovely knot that can’t bite into itself and you have effectively created the same spade end knot....used it for years and had no problems. My father taught me it when we were worming for salmon.....

[Tengisgol]

Perhaps it’s because I was brought up match fishing the Thames for lightening dace and roach but I’d never dream of using an eyed hook for roach. Generally, the wire is heavier and I don’t like the way they sit on the line. Just no comparison to me.

Perhaps it’s just the psychology of it but it would kill me to use an eyed hook for roach.

[Olly]

I once had a 2lb+ roach on 3 grains of corn on a size 6 eyed hook! I was catching river carp at the time!

Other better ways are trotting with a "roach" hook - a 16/14/12 with bread flake/punch/crust. The spade end would be a crystal.

I tie my eyed hooks as RBT above when not using a hair rig - even with size 16 hooks (very small for my eyes) to braid.

[ReelMaker]

Hi I use Drennan medium wire gauge eyed hooks at size 20 ,fishing punch bread ,no problems for the smaller roach.I use 2.5 drennan florocarbon .Reelmaker.

[CWK]

Tubertini spade end hooks for me when targeting roach , rudd ,crucians and dace .

[DaceAce]

For serious hemp and tares fishing (and elderberries) the finer the hook the better as fare as I'm concerned; Tubertini Serie 4 size 16 were my favourite but virtually unobtainable so I'm switching to some of the very fine wire Gamakatsu and Drennan barbless hooks, tying them to the finest line I ca get away with, usually 0.08 or 0.09 (breaking strain matters little as the figure is usually inaccurate. Ironically I caught on elderberries today on the Thames, my first trip on the Thames for nearly four years and the first time I've caught on elderberries for about 8 years. By coincidence I got my berries from the same bush I used to grab them from in the 70s and 80s when I stayed in Wolvercote (where Peter Stone used to live).

[Tengisgol]

For serious hemp and tares fishing (and elderberries) the finer the hook the better as fare as I'm concerned; Tubertini Serie 4 size 16 were my favourite but virtually unobtainable so I'm switching to some of the very fine wire Gamakatsu and Drennan barbless hooks, tying them to the finest line I ca get away with, usually 0.08 or 0.09 (breaking strain matters little as the figure is usually inaccurate. Ironically I caught on elderberries today on the Thames, my first trip on the Thames for nearly four years and the first time I've caught on elderberries for about 8 years. By coincidence I got my berries from the same bush I used to grab them from in the 70s and 80s when I stayed in Wolvercote (where Peter Stone used to live).

I had a cycle down the river tonight, after being away on holiday, and noticed the elderberries ripening!

I have two elderberry stories. My first is a memory of Peter Scaddon winning a Motor Gear club match at Richmond with them and a nice catch of roach. The second was catching a barbel at Aldermaston on them under an elderberry bush as Fred Crouch looked on! A proud moment in the shadow of a master.

What lines are you using DaceAce at that diameter?