The Felton tubular rod ring

[Cane]

This “essential” item was listed in the Allcocks catalogue of 1939. I thought I’d ask if anyone out there in TFF land, has ever used one, or indeed has ever come across one?

[Deaf Cat]

Is this “flapping” of the line from fixed spool reels the reason why “bigger fish” rods tend to have lined butt rings?

[Liphook]

Is it period recognition for the alleged Nomura effect? Or early signs of 'modern' rodbuilding slants towards cof/kc/kf/fc/lr guidance? I looked at this on initial post but couldn't add anything, but now it's been brought up again I would like to learn more

[Cane]

Liphook, I don’t actually know what any of those things mean, but I will offer some thoughts I’ve had since I put this post up.
I have two Felton Crosswind reels. Both are used with line under 6 lbs. I think either 4 or 5. These lines are probably thinner than they would have been in the 1950’s anyway, but they have a tendency to be effectively “woven” together, causing them to stick when casting. My point being that heavier and thicker lines were probably always necessary with the Felton design.
I haven’t noticed the “ slapping” effect mentioned, but again, I realise that reels were often attached lower down the butt than today, which would give a longer stretch of line between reel and butt ring, so a certain amount of “slap” is more likely. The solution seems then to be to just move the reel up the butt, closer to the butt ring, or, if you want the reel lower, then attach the tubular rod ring! I’ve sometimes used a homemade detachable ring to fit on the butt, when using centre pins that don’t have a guide ring. It helps prevent flying line and tangles.

[Liphook]

Apologies Cane I wasn't trying to bamboozle, they refer to gude sizing and spacing calculators/systems developed by rod design engineers primarily the Fuji corp where Mr Nomura worked; cone of flight, K concept, KF concept, Fuji concept and low rider. The issue of line slap is still debated and has developed new discussions since the 'soft' ie limp multi strand weaves of braided polyethylene with trade names such as Dynema and Spectra were introduced. All thoroughly modern stuff of course, but with roots in the past - nylon monofilament was considered new not all that long ago in the scheme of angling history. We've come a long way since the days of plaited horse hair but the issues with line coming off a fixed spool reel at 90° angle or from a rotating 'conventional' spool be it pin or multiplier, haven't changed much!

[Cane]

Liphook, many thanks for the explanation. It’s good to know that there are still things to keep the old brain ticking over. I had previously thought that a low rider referred to a type of motor bike!

[Olly]

A quick view of the modern - and traditional - rings at 'Guidesnblanks' will show how things are changing!

The fact that many manufacturers used copper wire whipping, on their butt rings especially, show how far back they were aware of - line slap.

Fuji was at one stage deciding upon large butt rings, a cone butt ring or the in-line method, all to prevent line-slap in the era of monofilament lines.

[Nobby]

Is this “flapping” of the line from fixed spool reels the reason why “bigger fish” rods tend to have lined butt rings?

I once watched Chris Ball cast at a country show in Romsey, Hants.

Tipped off by Chris I watched the line leave the spool, not whe he cast to. I was amazed to see the line whipping out against the rod blank as it left the spool. Centripetal motion, or centrifugal force I imagine.

Distance casters used to use tubular butt rings years ago and there were definitely a few other versions of that Felton ring.

I think it's why some makers, notably Aspindale, had really small butt ring diameters.

[Liphook]

And that's one way the fixed spool.modernists have gone again - smaller butt guides mouted much further away from the reel. There's some interesting super slow motion video on the Fuji site of line flow/slap in braid and nono. Unfortunately the comentary is in Japanese and I haven't found a translation.

[Olly]

I notice that many modern 'distance carp rods' are using 40 or larger butt rings as standard. When I first stated building my own glass and c****n rods it was 20mm or 25mm - then it became 30mm - getting larger and larger rather than smaller. The tip ring has also increased from 8mm up to 12mm on many rods. Bear in mind these are casting rods - half way to beachcasters! Some with a t/c nearer 4lb.

One sort of rod never caught on in the UK - the 'inline' type.