Stick floats history

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Backhand

Re: Stick floats history

Post by Backhand »

Santiago wrote:I know several young anglers that are quite adept at trotting stick floats and avons on the Thames and catch loads of roach and dace. And they're so good they nearly always catch many more than myself. But saying that, they have veered towards another aspect of fishing, not carp though, for they're now into fly fishing for wild brown trout and grayling.

On another note, I 've noticed that many Thames anglers using stick floats tend to fish further out than those that use small avons. Perhaps I'm just imagining this! But if my observations are real, what's the explanation?

I can't answer that. Some swims are better fished close in, and running a float off the rod end is best. Where as some you might have to fish further out to get some depth or flow. Also length of rod would play a big part. In also depends on the skill level of the user.
I once had a favorite method, which I will call far bank stick float fishing. On a river up to 30 metres wide and obviously in favorable wind conditions. I would fish the stick float, rather than a waggler. It is possible to hold the float dead still for short periods. I loved this method, I used it more in pleasure sessions and it has caught me loads of Chub. About 3 years ago fish the Ouse at Newton blossomville in the winter. Nobody on the water had had a bite.. Most were ledgering as I was. It was just one of those days when you knew a static big bait just wasn't going to work.
I set up a float rod and fished a stick right across the river. Shotting was 2 or 3 AA directly under the float, with a bulk of No8's 2feet fromthe hook and droppers below. Water was gin clear and I fished a 14 hook and double 6mm breadpunch. Took me ages to get my first bite (which I was very surprised to get) caught 2 chub of 4lb 12oz and 4lb 7oz. the only one to catch. I wouldn't have caught on the waggler because it was one of those days when they wouldn't have chased a bait.

Stuart Whiting

Re: Stick floats history

Post by Stuart Whiting »

Backhand wrote:
Thames Mudlarker wrote:
Backhand wrote:
Thames Mudlarker wrote:
Backhand wrote:
AllRounder wrote:Having spent many years fishing stick floats on the Trent,Warwickshire Avon and The Severn if I could only carry one float style I would choose a wire stemmed shouldered stick float every time. The larger Avon style floats are great for deeper waters or where there is a need for bulk shotting - perhaps the lower Severn or Bristol Avon.
I spent the last day of the season fishing the upper Severn with a Wallis Avon Rod and centre pin reel. In the interest of keeping everything traditional I put an Avon style float on - I have to be honest and admit that I was dying to change it to a modern stick float!
I tend to agree with you AllRounder. All though I tried to fish canals as much as possible I did use to venture on to river occasionally. My stomping grounds would have been the slower rivers like "the Nene" but did also fish "the Trent and Severn occasionally. I used to carry wire stemmed sticks, some with Shoulders and some without. These were between 2BB - 14BB the bigger one's were used more in flood conditions. Very versatile, you can run them at the speed of the current or slow them down and even hold them still on a tight line. In the winter I would bulk shot with No 4's and a couple of No 10's or No 12's as droppers. If you spread the droppers especially the 12's and fish the bulk just off bottom, you can run the float through very slowly, with the hook/bait in front of the float. If you fished with a long hook length (2-3foot)with the same shotting you can actually stop the float dead, the bait will then be on the bottom, when you let the float go, the bait will still be stationary until the float passes the hook/bait by about 2-3 ft. Quite often by then a roach has already taken the stationary bait and as the float goes past it, it will just go under because the roach has stopped the bait.
Does that all make sense, much easier to show someone in real life.
Very much so makes sence, certain skills like these mastering the stick ain't something that can be learnt over night, definitely an art to fishing the stick well :Hat:
Stuart
This thread has made me want to go out and Stick float fish, pity it's the close season.
I haven't done it for years, but as soon as I started typing/posting, the memory kicks in and it all comes back to me. I'm remembering things I had forgotten about. Stick float fishing is a dying art, It will probably die out with our generation. Sad Isn't it.
God forbid it doesn't die out, I certainly wouldn't like to think so, I think it's a far more detailed and interesting technique than fishing the wag, yes the wag obviously does have its own skill but generally it's just left to fish itself unlike the stick wear it can be controlled,
Providing there's always quality river float anglers around the stick should still rule :Thumb:

Stuart
I do hope so, it's that anglers especially younger ones don't fish rivers like we did. I learnt all my early fishing on rivers, watching very good club anglers who had been doing it for years. The younger generation of anglers only seem interested if it's got Carp in it. There are hardly any club type matches left for them to watch and learn.

I must admit that in certain situations the waggler is better. The last 3 winters I have been fishing for Chub on small rivers local to me. The majority of swims are only 10 metres wide and depths range from 2ft - 5ft. A stealthy approach is the only way of catching the Chub. I fish a waggler purely because it doesn't make a splash on the strike, and when your just retrieving at the end of a trot, there is no disturbance on the surface. You can sometimes trot a swim for 2 hours, then out of the blue you get a bite. These Chub are there all the time, but not feeding. I think that if I used a stick, I would end up spooking them before I had a chance to catch one.
Also the water is fairly slow moving apart from when in flood. When it is better to ledger anyway. If you undershot a peacock waggler, you can slow it down if you need to, not as much as you can with a stick of cause, but enough. All the Chub I catch are actually caught just running it through though, letting the trailing line act as a slight brake.
Yes I fully agree as regards to using the wag for chub as it surely causes less disturbance on the waters surface :Hat:

Big chub are my no: 1 fish that I've spent all of my fishing life in targeting, I've been fishing now for some 35 years with 30 of em fishing mainly for chub :Thumb:

I've fished the river Lea religiously for 28 years and have had 102 chub over the 6lb barrier with 4 x 7lber's, probably regarded as the best big chub river in the country along with the Dorset stour and the Thames,

So yes mate as regards to spooking chub easily and using a very stealthy approach towards catching them is something I know only to well :Thumb:

certainly not like sitting there barbel fishing in highly coloured flood water that's for sure :fingertap:

Stuart

Stuart Whiting

Re: Stick floats history

Post by Stuart Whiting »

AllRounder wrote:I have to be honest I really can't remember where the lignum came from I have just worked out that I made those floats over forty years ago! as a very keen teenager. At that time I had a mini production line of floats as well as stick floats I made wagglers and canal balsa floats.
I remember Kevin Ashurst writing an article in the Angling Times about a float a French angler had showed him that consisted of nothing more than an inch of peacock quill with a needle stuck into it as a wire stem.A mini stick float almost.
This was shotted with a group of No8 as a bulk but spaced very slightly apart. (millimetres) Kevin used them on the northern canals for skimmers on the pole when pole fishing was just starting to take off and if I remember correctly he wasn't sure why it worked so well.
I made some of these but used them on the Warwickshire Avon around the Stratford area when the rive was full of Dace, Gudgeon and Chublets. I fished them in shallower swims and they worked better than I could have imagined it was one of those set ups that "looked" right before I had even tried it! Very hard to explain unless it's happened to you.
Nice one fella, sounds a very good inventive idea, sounds similar to the small drennan topper floats :Thumb:

Stuart

Stuart Whiting

Re: Stick floats history

Post by Stuart Whiting »

Backhand wrote:
Santiago wrote:I know several young anglers that are quite adept at trotting stick floats and avons on the Thames and catch loads of roach and dace. And they're so good they nearly always catch many more than myself. But saying that, they have veered towards another aspect of fishing, not carp though, for they're now into fly fishing for wild brown trout and grayling.

On another note, I 've noticed that many Thames anglers using stick floats tend to fish further out than those that use small avons. Perhaps I'm just imagining this! But if my observations are real, what's the explanation?

I can't answer that. Some swims are better fished close in, and running a float off the rod end is best. Where as some you might have to fish further out to get some depth or flow. Also length of rod would play a big part. In also depends on the skill level of the user.
I once had a favorite method, which I will call far bank stick float fishing. On a river up to 30 metres wide and obviously in favorable wind conditions. I would fish the stick float, rather than a waggler. It is possible to hold the float dead still for short periods. I loved this method, I used it more in pleasure sessions and it has caught me loads of Chub. About 3 years ago fish the Ouse at Newton blossomville in the winter. Nobody on the water had had a bite.. Most were ledgering as I was. It was just one of those days when you knew a static big bait just wasn't going to work.
I set up a float rod and fished a stick right across the river. Shotting was 2 or 3 AA directly under the float, with a bulk of No8's 2feet fromthe hook and droppers below. Water was gin clear and I fished a 14 hook and double 6mm breadpunch. Took me ages to get my first bite (which I was very surprised to get) caught 2 chub of 4lb 12oz and 4lb 7oz. the only one to catch. I wouldn't have caught on the waggler because it was one of those days when they wouldn't have chased a bait.
Something I learnt many a year ago, small suttle changes to yer set up makes all the difference and there's also days where those chub just simply won't move to a bait especially in cold water, it's then a case of roveing and dinkin a single swan shot and bait as close to there nose as poss but also without spooking em :fish:

Stuart

Backhand

Re: Stick floats history

Post by Backhand »

Thames Mudlarker wrote:
Yes I fully agree as regards to using the wag for chub as it surely causes less disturbance on the waters surface :Hat:

Big chub are my no: 1 fish that I've spent all of my fishing life in targeting, I've been fishing now for some 35 years with 30 of em fishing mainly for chub :Thumb:

I've fished the river Lea religiously for 28 years and have had 102 chub over the 6lb barrier with 4 x 7lber's, probably regarded as the best big chub river in the country along with the Dorset stour and the Thames,

So yes mate as regards to spooking chub easily and using a very stealthy approach towards catching them is something I know only to well :Thumb:

certainly not like sitting there barbel fishing in highly coloured flood water that's for sure :fingertap:

Stuart
Very good Chub catches there Thames Mudlarker. I wished I lived nearer to those waters. I have never been one to travel to far if I can help it. In my match fishing days I would travel up to a 100 miles just to fish for 5 hours. But now just try and fish the waters closer to me. My Chub tally is nowhere near as impressive as your. I didn't have time to go this past winter, but the winter before (14/15) I had 77 chub from Nov-Mar. 19 of these over 4lb in a river that at best is 3 foot deep. There aren't many fish left in these type of waters, so I spend a lot of time exploring all the different swims and walking for miles. I only ever fish for a Max of 3 hours. It's great fun, especially as nowadays I tend to be the only one doing it.

Backhand

Re: Stick floats history

Post by Backhand »

Thames Mudlarker wrote:

Something I learnt many a year ago, small suttle changes to yer set up makes all the difference and there's also days where those chub just simply won't move to a bait especially in cold water, it's then a case of roveing and dinkin a single swan shot and bait as close to there nose as poss but also without spooking em :fish:

Stuart
Subtle changes are the key. I often for a change float fish on the canal for roach with breadpunch( my favorite method). angler's and walkers talk to me and are interested in how I'm catching. Some think it is amazing to get a bite every cast and others just think there must be so many fish there it's easy.
I try and explain the intricacies involved. One of them is and they do look at me blankly when I say it is. The difference between getting a bit every put in and not getting a bite, could be just changing the depth of the float by one inch.


I also catch a lot of the Chub in the winter on bread punch. In (14/15) 69 of the 77 fish were on it. It's the same for Chub as Roach. You can run the float through without getting a bit. If you carried on all day like that, the chances are you still won't get one. I keep altering the depths and moving shot, some times the depth changes are only 1-2 inches just as with roach fishing. It's a great feeling when out of the blue you get a bite.

Stuart Whiting

Re: Stick floats history

Post by Stuart Whiting »

Backhand wrote:
Thames Mudlarker wrote:

Something I learnt many a year ago, small suttle changes to yer set up makes all the difference and there's also days where those chub just simply won't move to a bait especially in cold water, it's then a case of roveing and dinkin a single swan shot and bait as close to there nose as poss but also without spooking em :fish:

Stuart
Subtle changes are the key. I often for a change float fish on the canal for roach with breadpunch( my favorite method). angler's and walkers talk to me and are interested in how I'm catching. Some think it is amazing to get a bite every cast and others just think there must be so many fish there it's easy.
I try and explain the intricacies involved. One of them is and they do look at me blankly when I say it is. The difference between getting a bit every put in and not getting a bite, could be just changing the depth of the float by one inch.


I also catch a lot of the Chub in the winter on bread punch. In (14/15) 69 of the 77 fish were on it. It's the same for Chub as Roach. You can run the float through without getting a bit. If you carried on all day like that, the chances are you still won't get one. I keep altering the depths and moving shot, some times the depth changes are only 1-2 inches just as with roach fishing. It's a great feeling when out of the blue you get a bite.
Without going to much off the topic as this is obviously a float thread, one of my favourite ways of catching large roach is to go roving along the banks of a small river with plenty of bankside cover and fish all the likely looking swims for roach and not your typical flood raft chub swims, IE nice uniform glides with marginal reeds etc, I'd use a single swan shot about 3 inches from the hook to a size 12-10 kammasan or drennan hook and with a piece of bread flake, the way that I do my bread flake is that it floats and pops up about 3 inches off the bottom off of the swan shot :Thumb:

In reality it's pretty much the same technique as one would use for chub but the main part of doing this is to choose certain stretches of river that is not so renowned for chub and has a far more roach stocking density :Hat:

9 out of ten if you approach a swim and providing you don't spook the fish , yer first cast often meets with one of the bigger fish of the group and wouldn't be unusual to get a take within 4-5 minutes of casting and often sooner :Wink:

All the best

Stuart

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Santiago
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Re: Stick floats history

Post by Santiago »

I have access to an old LAA match stretch on the Thames that has not been fished for decades and is completely overgrown bankside . Do you chaps think that it might be worth trotting a float down
"....he felt the gentle touch on the line and he was happy"

Hemingway

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Nobby
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Re: Stick floats history

Post by Nobby »

Not many, Benny!!! Especially as you're in a position to sneak in quietly and moor up....jealous,??? Me???? just a bit.....

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Santiago
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Re: Stick floats history

Post by Santiago »

Well you're welcome to join me in the summertime. I have an old 1962 LAA membership book which shows their stretches on the Thames. I was quite surprised to find one of them was opposite where I fished in the ninetees because it was so overgrown with willows that no swims exist anymore. Anyways, I will give it a go!
"....he felt the gentle touch on the line and he was happy"

Hemingway

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