The New Owner of Redmire?

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Paul D

Re: The New Owner of Redmire?

Post by Paul D »

Beresford wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:21 pm Fishing, to me, is defined by the simple fact that the angler purposefully intends and expects to have to set the hook, anything else is trapping. Any end tackle designed to self-hook the fish without any action on the angler's part, once the bait has been placed, is a snare.

That sometimes the fish picks up a bait and runs off with it as such a pace or distance and in doing so hooks itself is fair game, since that was not the anglers intention or the way his, or her, tackle was arranged.

I'm sorry to write but all this 'modern carp fishing' is not fishing at all as I understand it but trapping pure and simple and that has less attraction to me than watching my lawn grow.
A interesting debate and probably needs its own thread, Beresford, I agree with your point of view but Dave does make some valid points, the majority of the barbel I've caught have hooked themselves despite me using the simplest of end tackle ( bored bullet, buffer bead and stop shot). What does miff me off is the bivey boys feeling the need to strike dramatically even though there using heavy fixed leads and the fish is already well and truly hooked by the time they drag themselves out of the camo tents.

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Bob Brookes
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Re: The New Owner of Redmire?

Post by Bob Brookes »

My letter written with 'Redmire ink' arrived today while I was attempting to snag a barbel or two. A lovely thought and much appreciated, thank you Fennel. :Thumb:
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RBTraditional
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Re: The New Owner of Redmire?

Post by RBTraditional »

Paul D wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:43 pm
Beresford wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:21 pm Fishing, to me, is defined by the simple fact that the angler purposefully intends and expects to have to set the hook, anything else is trapping. Any end tackle designed to self-hook the fish without any action on the angler's part, once the bait has been placed, is a snare.

That sometimes the fish picks up a bait and runs off with it as such a pace or distance and in doing so hooks itself is fair game, since that was not the anglers intention or the way his, or her, tackle was arranged.

I'm sorry to write but all this 'modern carp fishing' is not fishing at all as I understand it but trapping pure and simple and that has less attraction to me than watching my lawn grow.
A interesting debate and probably needs its own thread, Beresford, I agree with your point of view but Dave does make some valid points, the majority of the barbel I've caught have hooked themselves despite me using the simplest of end tackle ( bored bullet, buffer bead and stop shot). What does miff me off is the bivey boys feeling the need to strike dramatically even though there using heavy fixed leads and the fish is already well and truly hooked by the time they drag themselves out of the camo tents.
I'll go along with your observations Paul. We do indeed try to make a fair game of angling, but there are occasions where the fish have other ideas, I mostly fish the smallest weight I can get away with whilst ledgering usualy just a single swan shot as dear old Peter Stone prescribed.The more modern carp, "carbelling"and tench boys see it completely differently.....maybe it's due to the effects of Stella Artois and the Jamacian woodbines or even the Columbian marching powder...... :Chuckle:
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Re: The New Owner of Redmire?

Post by Jardine »

Dave Burr wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2017 4:53 pm Jardine - In my defence, I did say 'arguably' but his rig was perhaps the beginning of a trend to hit the fish in the bottom lip.

With regard to self hooking rigs. I have no real problem with them for the reason already mentioned. If baiting is heavy or concentrated, the feeding fish do not move far and deep hooking is a possibility. A rig that hooks the fish within inches of it picking up the bait is a logical answer to an angling problem. Add to this that many carp, especially on pressured waters, can detect a rig and eject the bait in less time that it takes to say it.

Again, fishing at range when line is bowed or running through weed etc, you have little possibility of detecting a take in time to hit it. There are many reasons to get the fish to self hook and I just see it as a sensible method and far superior to blanking for season after season.

What I will add is that I know how to fish close in and to hook the fish myself. The vast majority of carp anglers only know the self hook approach and will use it regardless. But that opens another can of worms about the indoctrination of the masses.

On rivers - especially fast ones such as the Wye - self hooking is a fact of life. The fish lifts the bait and lead then feels it moving in the current - result voom! let's get out of here and your rod is teetering on the rest or flying after the running fish. I have fished with light, balanced running rigs many times only to have a screaming run. To try to make the fish give a bite you can strike at..... well, is it worth it?
Hi Dave, point taken about Walkers bottom lip hooked fish, it's a great story and I never tire of reading it.
Olly made the point in another post that with bolt rigs the problem of deep hooked fish has disappeared, so in one respect its better for the fish.
But on the other hand the fish also get caught far more often which is not good for the fish.
This will be my last comment on the subject, as you say each to his own, but its not for me.

Regarding self hooking Barbel . Its more than 25 years since I fished for them on the Lea and Avon.
I missed lots of thumping bites, sometimes the rod being pulled off the rests and mostly they never hooked themselves.
I'd take my eyes off the rod for a moment and invariably thats when the bite would come,whilst it was frustrating I accepted it and considered it part of the fishing. Perhaps it was because often my hook would be buried in a big piece of luncheon meat.
So I've had a different experience to you and others who have commented on this thread.
Best regards
Mem
Last edited by Jardine on Mon Feb 06, 2017 5:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Dave Burr
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Re: The New Owner of Redmire?

Post by Dave Burr »

Mem

Nuff said :Hat:

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Gary Bills
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Re: The New Owner of Redmire?

Post by Gary Bills »

Snape wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:16 pm
Jardine wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:12 pm
Dave Burr wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:16 pm Richard Walker experimented with rig design and arguably invented the first self-hooking/bolt rig when he fished with a lead stopped less than an inch from the hook. He caught his 31 pounder on it.

Despite the 'Essex' laddishness and, for me, the disagreeable personalities of the Korda crew, I have found the development of underwater filming very interesting. I love fish and am totally absorbed whilst watching them. Seeing them in their natural habitat is just an extension to my passion much like watching the footage from inside a bird nesting box. Were Dick Walker still with us, I feel he would also find it interesting.

As I type this, there is, on the TV, a program about wildlife and the use of hidden spy cameras to obtain new and previously unseen footage of various animals. It's just technology and it's progress - or, for some on here, 'progress'.

For me, it's just fishing. Using a self hooking rig for carp is vastly superior to doing the same, in a 'traditional ' way, for pike.

Personal choice and all that. :Happy:
Dave,
I don't think Richard Walker invented the bolt rig. My objection is to self hooking rigs and not underwater cameras.
The bolt rig is deadly, anyone can catch carp on it, no missed runs, no concentration.
The Korda boys demonstrated that, and there was no need to run outside the bivvy to the rods, the fish was already snagged.
I argue against it on the grounds that it is not sporting, and I don't consider it to be a form of traditional angling.
Best regards
Mem
Hear, hear. Timing the strike is one the critical parts of angling in my view and sometimes very frustrating (esp when surface fishing!). Without it we would merely be snagging the fish. :(
I agree - there's a difference between using a rig that is fundamentally designed to cause a fish to self-hook and, on occasions, finding that a fish may have self-hooked itself, as in a river situation, for instance: the difference being the intention to strike. Striking a fish does require timing and judgement. Snape's also right about surface fishing for carp - it can be maddening: but how very satisfying when it all goes right!

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Shaun Harrison
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Re: The New Owner of Redmire?

Post by Shaun Harrison »

I'm not too sure how a tongue in cheek thread about Redmire has ended up being a discussion about bolt rigs, but hey ho.

All I can say is that I'm proud to have been one of the chosen ones to be able to share a bit of Redmire Pool from where this thread started.

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AndyD
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Re: The New Owner of Redmire?

Post by AndyD »

I'm now considering scraping some of the mud from my waders (last worn at Redmire in the summer). Any offers for some genuine Redmire silt? You too can own a piece of history.

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Beresford
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Re: The New Owner of Redmire?

Post by Beresford »

When we received out TFF badge Mark had added Redmire Water to his ink.
The Split Cane Splinter Group

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Shaun Harrison
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Re: The New Owner of Redmire?

Post by Shaun Harrison »

Fennel's letter was answered with ink containing water that may have passed through the gills of a succession of monstrous Italian commons far larger than I could have dreamed of catching when I was a child, thinking that 44 lb was the limit.
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