MK4 Avon/Carp Rod Garage find

[Brightleaf]

Hello,
I have loved this forum since joining, it has helped guide me through buying and seeking out vintage fishing tackle immensely. Recently I bought this rod. It was a garage find! The chap selling it said it belonged to his father who stopped using it in the 1970's and it has been stored in his garage ever since. Over 40 years!!

And it looked the part too. The rod bag was covered in cobwebs and I was thrilled when taking the rod out to see that it might well be a B James and Son MK4 Avon or Carp rod. I am no expert about these rods, in fact this is the first one I have ever seen in real life.

Many years ago I used to repair fishing rods and make the odd rod for a fishing tackle shop, and just recently I got back into rod making and have restored two split cane rods which I loved doing. I want to restore this rod but before I do anything I wanted to gain some information if possible from you lovely people.

Firstly can any of you tell if it is an Avon rod or Carp rod? I have no idea so would appreciate any advice there. The rod is 10' 2" in length with a 28 inch cork handle. Unfortunately it has no decals.

As it is I am sure a MK4 I want to be sympathetic to its restoration and make sure I do it right as it does look like the rod has undergone changes during its life. I have uploaded some photos so you can see how it looked when I got it. I have so far stripped off all the rings and varnish and was supprised to then be able to see what must have been the original intermediate whipping marks. I wonder why they would have stripped off those and turn it into the rod it is now? Strange, and I will never know why.

One thing I am doubtful about are the rod rings which seem to be too small on the top section of the rod. The tip ring is definately wrong as is the butt ring which I will change to an original for the rod. But can any of you kindly give me the correct inner ring sizes for a MK4 top section?

Finally what would you suggest regarding the rewhipping of the rod? I want to whip it in a dark green, what I am thinking about are the intermediates. It is going to be impossible for me to add the original amount of intermediates as there must have been well over 100+ to whip, but I would like to do some. What do you suggest? Do you have any photos of your own rods as a guide?

Thank you so much for any information you can give, I am very grateful as I would like to give this rod a nice restoration and then after over 40 years hidden away in a garage, take this lovely rod to my favourite lake and breath new life into it. Thank you kindly John

John
Rings too small on top section?

Hidden original intermediate markings

[Andyman]

Hi, I was the under bidder on this rod and recognised it immediately as a Mk 4. Probably an Avon kit model but cannot be sure just from photos.
The rings and spacings seem absolutely genuine compared to my own Mk 4 Avon, apart from the tip which is an ugly addition, although I quite like the idea of a threaded tip ring. Gives the rod another dimension.
You are correct about the intermediates, my own having close to 200. Think I would reduce that if my own project.
Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than me can give better confirmation but in the meantime you seem to be doing a grand job.

[Wallys-Cast]

I think the carp rod has a 28 inch handle and the avon a 26 inch.
I seem to remember the early rods had about 300 intermediate whippings and the later rods nearer 220 so I think thats the reason a lot of people just leave them off altogether.

Wal.

[Brightleaf]

Many thanks for your replies Andyman and Wal, they are very much appreciated. I am going to restore it to its near original look, I have a nice vintage low bell agate butt ring for it and will seek out a tip ring. Wow 220 intermediate whippings, I will take your advice Andyman and reduce that down. When it is done I will post photos. It will be great to see it back on the bank again casting into the sun.

[Dokterhoo]

Hi,
The easiest way to determine if Avon or Carp MkIV is to check the male ferrule diameter - Avon approx 0.330", 21/64",(8.4mm), Carp approx 0.375, 3/8", (9.5mm).
To my eye it seems to have all the right fittings for a B.James rod (donut handle, correct butt cap, button and reel rings, correct ferrule type, correct small low bells on tip, correct 10'-2" length), except for Butt ring which would have been a low bells type 25mm dia and of course the tip ring being later.

Have fun with it.

Dok

[Harry H]

I have a doughnut B James MKIV and the internal inter rings from the tip down measurements are approx
5.5mm 5.5, 6, 6,7.5, 11.5.
Intermediate whippings are every 10mm and mine also need replacing. I've seen quite a few MKIV of this period with their inters having come off through use, they are also horrible thick things when compared to my trumpet handle version.
I'm currently working on a couple of other rods but it may well be the next project.
On the other hand I might just go and stand on a plug, might be less painful.

[Brightleaf]

Fantastic information Dok and Harry, thank you so much. I am now quite sure it is a MK4 Carp as all the measurments tie in with your information. I have so far stripped the rod and cleaned the cork handle which has come up great. I was going to use a dark green whipping but have decided to use red whipping. The big question now though is weather I can re-do all the inters.

Definately a trip to specsavers when this is done, lol.

Thank you for taking the time to post the info it has really helped me out.
Kind Regards
John

[Chubman]

im doing a b james carp and avon at the moment in green, with 10mm inters i will post a pic in 2021 if i finish them by then

[Old Man River]

Just a quick suggestion, when doing the inters ( I have done 4 sets of full inters on Mk IV rods in the last two years)

Do as many as you can manage in a sitting, and before you put it down, apply a coat of water based satin varnish to the whippings to ‘ glue ‘ them in place , otherwise , a slight accident could result in a few coming loose , which is a real downer when you have spent s lot of time on them .

OMR.

[Harry H]

Just a quick suggestion, when doing the inters ( I have done 4 sets of full inters on Mk IV rods in the last two years)

Do as many as you can manage in a sitting, and before you put it down, apply a coat of water based satin varnish to the whippings to ‘ glue ‘ them in place , otherwise , a slight accident could result in a few coming loose , which is a real downer when you have spent s lot of time on them .

OMR.

Good tip that nothing quite find one has come loose for raising the blood pressure
Coming to the end of my Mk IV marathon 155 down 52 to go I think