Which one is which... and what's it for...?

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Aitch
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Which one is which... and what's it for...?

Post by Aitch »

Good morning chaps (and Chapesses :Hat: )
I have a question... Please excuse my ignorance, but with all the different Wizard combinations, I wondered if they were built to do specific jobs, or all different...
I have seen Green coloured Wizards, heard of the Wallis Wizards, Black labelled ones, gold labelled ones, some all split cane and some whole cane butts...
It gets very confusing... could someone please shed some light on what Wizard did what please...?

Many thanks...

Harry
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Santiago
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Re: Which one is which... and what's it for...?

Post by Santiago »

I think that they all do the same thing! Like any other Avon style rod.
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Hemingway

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Olly
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Re: Which one is which... and what's it for...?

Post by Olly »

Simple really - a pattern copied by many rod makers using slightly different materials - but sticking to whole cane - split cane - split cane. Total length about 11 feet. Goodness know how many variations of whipping colour, handle, rings, etc.

Allcock describe it as - an Avon rod - an all-rounder - equally suitable for roach, dace and hard fighting tench, chub and barbel.

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Re: Which one is which... and what's it for...?

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Re: Which one is which... and what's it for...?

Post by Aitch »

Many Thanks for the link Olly... my reasons for asking were I'd read in some of Chris Yate's books that he used the Wizard for Carp and Barbel, in some cases he referred to it as a "Wizard" and others a "Wallis Wizard... I had it in my mind that the Wallis Wizard was the green stained version and built along different lines and therefore two separate rods... I have seen a few variations and wondered if it was a generic name for a series of rods or just an Avon style rod

(Santiago ... I already knew that it was built along Avon lines, but the question was of variations, but many thanks for your reply :Hat: )

My own Wizard which I acquired last year, is an inch short of 11 feet long and is a whole cane butt, with split cane middle and tip sections, it has a 19" sheet cork covered handle, with a black button and the label is a Gold Oval bearing the "Allcocks Wizard Logo, with the "Allcocks" picked out in plain Black script, with the Wizard in red with a black border... (the rod has been superbly rebuilt by Wal in scarlet red whipping) I use it with one of his Butt extender handles which makes the rod much easier in the hand and balances it up nicely... Mated to a Rapidex it is a superb float rod and I have had some cracking Roach Rudd and Perch on it already, I have not used it for larger fish as yet but that is a pleasure I am keeping for the clubs Tench pool in High Easter...
Just one more cast love, and I'll be on me way home

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Re: Which one is which... and what's it for...?

Post by Jeremy Croxall »

I have just acquired a whole cane butt Avon Rod, courtesy of Pauls Estate Sale, built by FT Williams. It looks just like an Allcocks Wizard. I believe several makers had their own Wizard versions or copies
But the originator I believe was Mr Wallis, I think for Hardy? Is that correct??
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Re: Which one is which... and what's it for...?

Post by Nobby »


That text was lifted straight from the 'mistral pages' which were John Ollif-Cooper's sales website. As such, some observations therein might be more geared to achieve sales than record the historical facts....great salesman was/is JOC.....

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Re: Which one is which... and what's it for...?

Post by Nobby »

It appears to be an urban myth that FWK Wallis designed the rod for Hardy and that they, in turn, made Allcock take the 'Wallis' part off their rod. Otherwise how do we explain that in the late Sixties, just before they were closed down, Allcock once more put his name on their rod. here is just such a rod, in a somewhat brighter green hue than is normal post 1964:

Image

In it's simplest form the Allcock Wizard has three versions; the pre-War green-dyed version...actually meant to be a black dye originally, I think. This rod appears in the Allcock Guides as early as 1936 and was offered as a wooden handled rod, a cork sheet covered wooden handled rod and the latter also offered with all-lined guides. It is the cork-lined handled rod that we see the most. The rod is also noticeable for having some new 'stand-off' rings designed for it...not the lined ones though. Always whipped in light green, there are few originals. This rod is very light and 'through' in action and although described as 'killing' huge salmon for FWK it took him several hours to do so. Not sport in modern terms, I think we could agree?

Image

Here is the label which uses the name of the designer, with the two words in different fonts:

Image
The only image I have, I think this has been touched-up

The second version appeared after the war when it was very hard to get female Japanese cane of the same standard for the butt section and the rod was 'improved' with a larger diameter cane used, which stiffened the butt up considerably. These rods bore Allcock's new transfer, the gold oval with red lettering, versions of which has appeared pre-war, but now all rods bore it. these rods were whipped in crimson.These rods also gained tenoned male ferrules, or counters as indicated here by Dick Walker when discussing another rod:

Image

At some time the rod lost these ferrules and plain counters were fitted, creating the third version.

The very last rods gained the a brighter orange-tinged whipping and in the final years, as mentioned above, the transfer was changed to a pale green, white and black one to reflect the merger with Youngs and later Lee, (whose colours they were before)

Various other makers copied the rod, Aero...a short-lived breakaway from Aspindale, Aspindale themselves and also an ex-Aspindale employee who made rods for others, notably Tom Watson the tackle shop owner in Nottingham.

All the above rods vary considerably due to slight design changes and cane quality.

Are they really an 'Avon' rod? I don't think so .... they are far too finely tipped to deal with big weights and big rivers well and there are better rods out there to do the job. Are they lovely and desirable? Not really as the handle is far too short, it being designed for Nottingham casting by FWK where the reel is below the hand and thus exerts far more effect on the balance of the rod. Several fellers have extended the handle upwards towards the butt ring and others have created handle extensions to lengthen the rod, but none of these really restore the balance the rod was originally created with unless you put the reel in what most of us would feel is the wrong place. We know now that a lead weight under the butt cap doesn't really do it either......

Here's FWK holding the rod and you can see where the reel is:

Image

Now all of the above is just my opinion of course, and many anglers love their Wizards.


So much so that John Ollif-Cooper re-built a few with black labels added to them and sold them at a considerably high price. I know he created five, with one in a green dye that he kept, though later offered unsuccessfully on eBay.

So highly prized were these rods that at least two copies of his version of the rods were made and also offered on eBay..one whipped in green and one with a sparkly black to the 'black label'. Only the green whipped one had the original three rings on the tip section.

I have images of ALL these rods should they ever resurface.

There's no point in turning my back on the elephant in the room here, I was in the past, very critical of JOC for the manner in which he suggested these rods were original offerings from Allcock. But nevertheless, I have been assured by several owners that they are superb rods with which they would never part....and indeed I have only ever seen one on eBay, other than JOC's own green one.

What is beyond doubt though, is JOC's ability to turn out a rod every bit as well finished as any rod maker out there...and I include the esteemed Edward Barder in that statement. Just to show my point, here is just one image of a JOC black labelled Wizard refurb:

Image
Note the compressed guide on the tip section, presumably so as not to interfere with the curve of the cane under load

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Re: Which one is which... and what's it for...?

Post by Olly »

JOC's post on Fishing Magic:- https://www.fishingmagic.com/wizard-by-name/

A Black Label was recently sold on that auction site.

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Re: Which one is which... and what's it for...?

Post by Aitch »

Many thanks for the replies chaps, :Hat: some good info there, cleared up a bit of confusion on my part anyway.
My Wizard is a cracking rod, a tad soft in the tip for my liking, but it makes a cracking float rod.
Just one more cast love, and I'll be on me way home

Leave nothing but footprints, take nothing but pictures and memories

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