wallace casting with taditional cane

[StefanDuma]

If you think the Wallis Cast is hard try writing about it. Wallis fished for years and years using a wide variety of tackle, Slater, Allcock and Hardy. The cast developed over the years. Something I am currently researching for my follow up book to Men of Trent.

[Penninelad]

I am a Grommit caster and proud of it! If I cannot get the distance I use a fixed spool reel. Perhaps we could ask BendSomeCane to put some videos on Tubetube.He is our local expert Wallis casting expert and has given lessons at a well known angling Club of which a few of us on here are members.Despite his best efforts to teach me I have failed.

[Mole-Patrol]

Thank you Clive
On Chapman homepage the rod has a description as a 4lb rod.
Kind Regards
Mötti

Back in the early 1900's a man called Crossle who was big into tournament casting did a lot of research and testing regards casting. He calculated that any given weight was multiplied by 16 during a vigorous cast. So if you use that formula a 4lb test curve rod would safely handle a 4oz weight - bait, lead and float combined.

What we now know as the Wallis cast was said to have first been used by a William Bailey long before Wallis popularised it. Bailey was a Nottingham tackle dealer and with David Slater and others part of the Casting Club initiated by Marston. Bailey used the method of pre-starting the reel long before it was known as the Wallis Cast.

I put a video up about learning Wallis Casting during the lockdown period. It might help some:

[StefanDuma]

Clive you are a bit out with the dates and events.

William Bailey was the first to write about the Nottingham cast in his book The Anglers Instructor in 1856, the 3rd edition in 1878 had the illustration of the method of controlling the reel.

Fig 99.jpg

William Bailey did have a tackle shop at various locations in Nottingham but it was as an instructor and professional match fisherman that he made his money. His son William ran the shop as in my book Men of Trent.

There was no casting club involving the people you mention Slater only started making tackle in 1878. He did take part in various casting tournaments and Marston was heavily involved. RB Marston did develop a reel, along with variations, with Leonard Crossle.

Wallis developed the cast over a number of years, Bailey son was one of his fishing companions. This will be fully covered in my third book covering Slater, Cox, Martin, Wallis Nightingale and a few others.

[Mole-Patrol]

The illustration appears to show both hands on the rod which does not go with the way a Wallis cast is carried out.

W. Bailey jnr and J W Martin took part in the Fishing Gazette casting tournament open to all comers in 1881. It was young Bailey who is thought to have first adapted the Nottingham cast to be used with light float tackle. His Father of the same name was a tackle dealer, author and angling coach and was the man selected in a North versus South fishing match held over three days to determine whether the Nottingham or Lea style of fishing was the better technique for roach fishing. The South won 2:1.

It was over 20 years later when Wallis won the 1904 International Tournament in the light float casting event using a Slater reel. By that time the practice of starting the reel when doing a Nottingham cast was well known on the tournament circuit which is where some rod and reel makers got their ideas from.

In 1909 a club was set up by Marston and others including Sheringham & Crossle. Illingworth and the Hardys were members along with many household angling names of the era demonstrating their new innovations.

[StefanDuma]

The illustration appears to show both hands on the rod which does not go with the way a Wallis cast is carried out.

W. Bailey jnr and J W Martin took part in the Fishing Gazette casting tournament open to all comers in 1881. It was young Bailey who is thought to have first adapted the Nottingham cast to be used with light float tackle. His Father of the same name was a tackle dealer, author and angling coach and was the man selected in a North versus South fishing match held over three days to determine whether the Nottingham or Lea style of fishing was the better technique for roach fishing. The South won 2:1.

It was over 20 years later when Wallis won the 1904 International Tournament in the light float casting event using a Slater reel. By that time the practice of starting the reel when doing a Nottingham cast was well known on the tournament circuit which is where some rod and reel makers got their ideas from.

In 1909 a club was set up by Marston and others including Sheringham & Crossle. Illingworth and the Hardys were members along with many household angling names of the era demonstrating their new innovations.

Hi there really interested to know the name of the Club that was set up, would you like to enlighten us?

[Mole-Patrol]

These articles are online archives taken from the Fishing Gazette. If you look through your original editions dated just after the events you should find the original articles:

Establishment of a British
Amateur Fly and Bait
Casting Club

At a meeting of anglers called together by Mr.
E. B. Marston, Editor of the Fishing Gazette, and
held at the Adelphi Hotel on Wednesday, Dec. 22,
1909, for the purpose of considering the desirability
of establishing an Amateur Fly and Bait Casting
Club, it was unanimously decided to proceed at
once with the formation of such a club. A com-
mittee, consisting of Mr. R. B. Marston, Mr. H. T.
Sheringham (Angling Editor of the Field), Mr. W.
D. Coggeshall, Mr. J. T. Emery, Mr. H. W. Little,
Mr. J. Holt Schooling, and Mr. L. Crossle (Hon.
Secretary), was provisionally appointed to carry
out the preliminary arrangements.

The object of the club will be to encourage skill
in fly and bait casting, and it proposes to effect
this —

(1) By renting a suitable ground and water in
some accessible spot, in or near London, to which
its members can resort at any time for practice,
and

(2) By holding club contests between the
members from time to time, the events arranged
being, so far as possible, of such a nature as to
encourage the kind of skill in casting fly or bait
which is likely to be of use in actual fishing,
Tournament casting being a secondary con-
sideration.







INTERNATIONAL
CASTING TOURNAMENT,

PARIS, March lOth to I4tb, 1910

Event No. 9.
y[edium Bait-Casting. — Distance ; 40 grammes
( = lioz.).

1. Vicomte de France (overhead), total of five
casts, 248-31m. ( = 813ft. lOin.) ; longest cast,
52 28m. ( = 171ft. 4in.).

2. J. Perry (side-swing), total of five casts,
243-72m. (= 799ft.); longest cast,63-94m. ( = 209ft.
6in.).

3. M. Decantelle (side-swing), total of five casts,
224-90m. ( = 737ft. 2in.) ; longest cast, 61m.
(= 199ft. llin.).

A special prize was given to Mr. J. T. Emery for
the longest individual cast of 68*86m. (= 225ft.
lOin.). (Silex)




The following list of some of the chief English
and American records in bait-casting from the
year 1881 onwards will give some idea of the
standard required of successful competitors : —



Clipper Annual " for 1887, as having been made
from the coiled line in the Thames style. But
Mr. Chancellor G. Levison, of New York, who has
taken a leading part in American tournaments tor
many years past, and is very learned in such matters,
includes it among the casts made from the reel.
I have, therefore, given it the benefit of the doubt.
Mr. J. T. Emery's cast of 263ft., made at Kelvedon
in 1898, is, however, a world's record for distance
in any style. It was, indeed, better than it looks
on paper, since but for the fact that the organisers
of the tournament seriously under-estimated Mr.
Emery's casting powers, his performance would
have been even more remarkable than it appears.
The weight went far beyond the limits of the
casting-court and lodged in the thatched roof of a
barn, at a height of some 10ft. from the ground,
dead in line with the tape. I am assured by those
who were present at the time that but for this
obstacle it would have travelled at least nine or
ten yards farther than it did.

There are many references to the casting tournaments throughout the years. It would appear that Crossle, Illingworth and the Hardys amongst others competed and probably obtained ideas to be used in their own methods and tackle. Certainly the fixed spool idea was mentioned as being used by a French competitor who cast line that had been coiled around a tin can mounted like a conventional fixed spool reel. Also, the French including Decantelle (Hardy later bought the company) and The Vicomte de France (i.e. Vicount) made or had made reels to their design.

It is to me a fascinating insight into the development of tackle and methods during the fertile Victorian era. I sense there might be a book in it

[Jeremy Croxall]

Thank you Clive
On Chapman homepage the rod has a description as a 4lb rod.
Kind Regards
Mötti

Back in the early 1900's a man called Crossle who was big into tournament casting did a lot of research and testing regards casting. He calculated that any given weight was multiplied by 16 during a vigorous cast. So if you use that formula a 4lb test curve rod would safely handle a 4oz weight - bait, lead and float combined.

What we now know as the Wallis cast was said to have first been used by a William Bailey long before Wallis popularised it. Bailey was a Nottingham tackle dealer and with David Slater and others part of the Casting Club initiated by Marston. Bailey used the method of pre-starting the reel long before it was known as the Wallis Cast.

I put a video up about learning Wallis Casting during the lockdown period. It might help some:

Brilliant! Thanks for that, must get into the garden with a pin!!

[StefanDuma]

These articles are online archives taken from the Fishing Gazette. If you look through your original editions dated just after the events you should find the original articles:

Establishment of a British
Amateur Fly and Bait
Casting Club

At a meeting of anglers called together by Mr.
E. B. Marston, Editor of the Fishing Gazette, and
held at the Adelphi Hotel on Wednesday, Dec. 22,
1909, for the purpose of considering the desirability
of establishing an Amateur Fly and Bait Casting
Club, it was unanimously decided to proceed at
once with the formation of such a club. A com-
mittee, consisting of Mr. R. B. Marston, Mr. H. T.
Sheringham (Angling Editor of the Field), Mr. W.
D. Coggeshall, Mr. J. T. Emery, Mr. H. W. Little,
Mr. J. Holt Schooling, and Mr. L. Crossle (Hon.
Secretary), was provisionally appointed to carry
out the preliminary arrangements.

The object of the club will be to encourage skill
in fly and bait casting, and it proposes to effect
this —

(1) By renting a suitable ground and water in
some accessible spot, in or near London, to which
its members can resort at any time for practice,
and

(2) By holding club contests between the
members from time to time, the events arranged
being, so far as possible, of such a nature as to
encourage the kind of skill in casting fly or bait
which is likely to be of use in actual fishing,
Tournament casting being a secondary con-
sideration.







INTERNATIONAL
CASTING TOURNAMENT,

PARIS, March lOth to I4tb, 1910

Event No. 9.
y[edium Bait-Casting. — Distance ; 40 grammes
( = lioz.).

1. Vicomte de France (overhead), total of five
casts, 248-31m. ( = 813ft. lOin.) ; longest cast,
52 28m. ( = 171ft. 4in.).

2. J. Perry (side-swing), total of five casts,
243-72m. (= 799ft.); longest cast,63-94m. ( = 209ft.
6in.).

3. M. Decantelle (side-swing), total of five casts,
224-90m. ( = 737ft. 2in.) ; longest cast, 61m.
(= 199ft. llin.).

A special prize was given to Mr. J. T. Emery for
the longest individual cast of 68*86m. (= 225ft.
lOin.). (Silex)




The following list of some of the chief English
and American records in bait-casting from the
year 1881 onwards will give some idea of the
standard required of successful competitors : —



Clipper Annual " for 1887, as having been made
from the coiled line in the Thames style. But
Mr. Chancellor G. Levison, of New York, who has
taken a leading part in American tournaments tor
many years past, and is very learned in such matters,
includes it among the casts made from the reel.
I have, therefore, given it the benefit of the doubt.
Mr. J. T. Emery's cast of 263ft., made at Kelvedon
in 1898, is, however, a world's record for distance
in any style. It was, indeed, better than it looks
on paper, since but for the fact that the organisers
of the tournament seriously under-estimated Mr.
Emery's casting powers, his performance would
have been even more remarkable than it appears.
The weight went far beyond the limits of the
casting-court and lodged in the thatched roof of a
barn, at a height of some 10ft. from the ground,
dead in line with the tape. I am assured by those
who were present at the time that but for this
obstacle it would have travelled at least nine or
ten yards farther than it did.

There are many references to the casting tournaments throughout the years. It would appear that Crossle, Illingworth and the Hardys amongst others competed and probably obtained ideas to be used in their own methods and tackle. Certainly the fixed spool idea was mentioned as being used by a French competitor who cast line that had been coiled around a tin can mounted like a conventional fixed spool reel. Also, the French including Decantelle (Hardy later bought the company) and The Vicomte de France (i.e. Vicount) made or had made reels to their design.

It is to me a fascinating insight into the development of tackle and methods during the fertile Victorian era. I sense there might be a book in it

Decantelle was a writer and editor later the Hardy agent in France. They met at the Tir Au Pigeon in the Bois de Bolougne in 1910. I own Decanteelle's Tournament reel.
When Decantelle became the Hardy agent they bought the manufacturing rights to the reel not the Company. The reels were manufactured by L.P.M. (Le Progres Mecanique) later changing their name to LPS. Hardy took over manufacturing.

Hardy as a professional like many other were banned from the British Amateur Fly & Bait Casting Club. The same rule applied to the Fly Fishers Club, whose HQ was the Adelphi Hotel.

The match where Bailey faced Woodard was not a North vs South it was the Hoxton Brothers Club vs Bailey, covered in great detail in Men of Trent.

There is no evidence that William Bailey invented the Wallis Cast.

You mention William Bailey Jun. along with Martin taking part in the Welsh Harp tournament. There is conflicting evidence on which Bailey took part.
Certainly speaking to members of the Baileys family, William Bailey Jun granddaughter, he was ok as a fisherman nowhere near the skill level of his father or younger brother.

Some pictures of me competing at the International Fario Club Paris following in the footsteps of Wadham, Hardy, Decantelle, Bougle, Plevins, and the Vicount,plus others. The viscount used the tin can reel, its in the Clubs museum.

CCdFrance.jpg

CCdFrance1.jpg

CCdFrance2.jpg

The reel I am using is a Coronation with a 6 8 inch Hardy Phantom.

We no longer hold the tournament in Paris, the last one was at the Hurlingham Club in London where my grandson won the Junior title. My son has over the years won a few titles However I have won nothing.

[Mole-Patrol]

The reference to Bailey Jnr being at the 1881 tournament is taken from the report published in the Fishing Gazette shortly after the event. There are many references online to William Bailey having originated the cast now known as the Wallis Cast, but these could just be repeats of one source however nobody has corrected it. It is the same as your reference to Dingley being known as 'Walter'. There is no hard evidence to support this, but you believe it anyway and continue to use it. Nobody is right about everything and some books, whilst having been thoroughly researched sometimes contain errors.

The cast that you described earlier in the thread contained in Bailey Snr's book isn't the Wallis Cast as we know it.

You will know that some of the competitors who took part in the tournaments were professionals as regards being tackle dealers or manufacturers and competed in classes specifically for professionals. For some reason those who wrote about fishing were classed as amateurs. The professionals who competed included people like Illingworth, Wadham, Slater and the Hardys. Crossle and Marston were deemed amateurs even though they each had a hand in designing and having made reels.

OK, so the fishing match was not billed as North .v. South, but that is essentially what it was. Northern running line tactics known as the Nottingham style versus southern pole fishing aka the Lea style.