Swing tips, quick question

[AshbyCut]

In Falkus and Buller's Freshwater Fishing," by Fred Buller and Hugh Falkus (first published by Macdonald and Jane's - 1975 ... pages 418 to 420), the author's research found the first published reference to be a description of a device in the Appendix of the third edition of "Nobbs' Art of Trolling."

Apparently, Mr. Nobbes (the spelling of his name given thus in Westwood and Satchell's "Bibliotetheca Piscatoria" (pub. 1883) ) published a book entitled "The Complete Troller, or The Art of Trolling" in 1682, so could not have written the appendix in the 1805 edition. The author of the appendix is un-named, but assumed to be a Fenman, as he recommended it's use for bream in still or slow waters, and the 1805 edition was published in Norwich.

From the description given ... they drew the illustration in the page below (the best I can scan without breaking the spine of the book) :-

[Silfield]

Swing tips do actually work!

I caught my first fish on the newly built swing tip today - a lively little roach

to you for giving it a try.
I spent most of my teen years ledgering with a swing tip in all kinds of weather. On a few occasions putting a couple of turns of lead solder wire around the end to try and combat the strong wind. They can be very sensitive and I remember fondly the anticipation of watching a bite develop with your hand poised, twitching over the rod ready to strike, knowing that any clumsy knocking of the rod is going to send the swing tip dancing!
Must dig them out and have another go.

[Pallenpool]

In Falkus and Buller's Freshwater Fishing," by Fred Buller and Hugh Falkus (first published by Macdonald and Jane's - 1975 ... pages 418 to 420), the author's research found the first published reference to be a description of a device in the Appendix of the third edition of "Nobbs' Art of Trolling."

Apparently, Mr. Nobbes (the spelling of his name given thus in Westwood and Satchell's "Bibliotetheca Piscatoria" (pub. 1883) ) published a book entitled "The Complete Troller, or The Art of Trolling" in 1682, so could not have written the appendix in the 1805 edition. The author of the appendix is un-named, but assumed to be a Fenman, as he recommended it's use for bream in still or slow waters, and the 1805 edition was published in Norwich.

From the description given ... they drew the illustration in the page below (the best I can scan without breaking the spine of the book) :-

Fascinating insight - that surely is the earliest recorded use of a swing tip - of sorts.

[Old Man River]

In Falkus and Buller's Freshwater Fishing," by Fred Buller and Hugh Falkus (first published by Macdonald and Jane's - 1975 ... pages 418 to 420), the author's research found the first published reference to be a description of a device in the Appendix of the third edition of "Nobbs' Art of Trolling."

Apparently, Mr. Nobbes (the spelling of his name given thus in Westwood and Satchell's "Bibliotetheca Piscatoria" (pub. 1883) ) published a book entitled "The Complete Troller, or The Art of Trolling" in 1682, so could not have written the appendix in the 1805 edition. The author of the appendix is un-named, but assumed to be a Fenman, as he recommended it's use for bream in still or slow waters, and the 1805 edition was published in Norwich.

From the description given ... they drew the illustration in the page below (the best I can scan without breaking the spine of the book) :-

A good piece of detective work there Mal, taking the idea back from the 1960"s at least 150 years ! In fact , such an item could easily be included in a vintage "pole" setup to target fish on the bottom and hand feeding groundbait very accurately to the spot.

Amazing what the answers to a quick question reveal over a period of days.



OMR

[Duckett]

In Falkus and Buller's Freshwater Fishing," by Fred Buller and Hugh Falkus (first published by Macdonald and Jane's - 1975 ... pages 418 to 420), the author's research found the first published reference to be a description of a device in the Appendix of the third edition of "Nobbs' Art of Trolling."

Apparently, Mr. Nobbes (the spelling of his name given thus in Westwood and Satchell's "Bibliotetheca Piscatoria" (pub. 1883) ) published a book entitled "The Complete Troller, or The Art of Trolling" in 1682, so could not have written the appendix in the 1805 edition. The author of the appendix is un-named, but assumed to be a Fenman, as he recommended it's use for bream in still or slow waters, and the 1805 edition was published in Norwich.

From the description given ... they drew the illustration in the page below (the best I can scan without breaking the spine of the book) :-

That’s a wonderful bit of historical detective work Mal and unimpeachable! Many thanks. This is the sort of thread that makes me come back to TFF again and again.

Phil

[Deaf Cat]

I have a (glass) Hardy Swingtip 9’6” which I used to catch bream about 15 years ago in a Kent reservoir.

I also have a similar 8’9” version (can’t remember how I acquired it) which has been immaculately converted into a quiver tip. This caught me my first decent chub from the Witham just last week.

[Moley]

The Swing-Tip as we sort of know it was invented by Jack Clayton in the mid 1950's to solve a specific problem of bite detection whilst ledgering for roach. However the tip really began to be used by Match Teams from 1958 onwards when the Spalding Team started to not only use them but win matches too. The idea seemed to hit a note with the South Yorkshire/Sheffield lads with Fred Foster being particularly taken with the method. So much so he became known as The Tip King on the Witham and Welland. His influence in the Fen land matches was such that arguably he was better known than Walker et al in the North of the country and but for his premature death in 1976 from 'Coal Disease' should have become better known. His book Fred Foster's Swing Tipping, published posthumously, is a Bible for this style of fishing and a must read.

Whilst this Fatty applauds Ashby Cut's research and consequently Falkus and Buller's work establishing a rope bite indicating device from 1805 whilst trolling for game fish perhaps it might be taking things a little far to compare the set ups and useage. Let's face it, Trolling for game fish using a rope indicator in some Scottish Loch system is just not the same in any way, shape or form, to ledgering in the flat, windswept Fens for roach and bream, is it?

Kevin Ashurst stated baldly that to deny Jack Clayton as the inventor of the Swing Tip by quoting from obscure historical sources 'should have done us all a favour if they had drawn our attention to it before Jack did. Since they did not it must be assumed that they did not understand what had been written until Jack's genius began to revolutionize the sport of angling.'

By the by Jack Clayton could not afford to patent his designs, so consequently made very little money from the invention that took a fishing technique regarded by many as 'semi-legitimate eel splodging' to another level and became the way to catch shy biting fish to the present day!

Hopefully this missive will explain some common misconceptions with regard to the Swing-Tip

And yes I am that bloody old to remember the above.

As ever,.....

Moley

[Dave Burr]

Great work Mal and a very decent counter from our pie munching friend.

Personally, my best day's 'swing tipping' came when I bought a Spring Tip but that's for another day.

[Old Man River]

I think, Moley, that you may have slightly misunderstood Ashby cuts contribution.

The piece was brought to light, as I read it, in a section or appendix to the larger piece about trolling, the appendix being written in the early 1800’s, and not actually concerning itself with trolling in any form, but merely offering some other interesting information on a different subject.

I dont think anybody would , even in the mists of time consider trolling as a logical way of catching bream, as Mal says the inference is that the appendix comes from the the Fens being published in Norwich , where lets face it, bream are or were somewhat plentiful.

To me the piece makes sense, and should not be thought of as anything to do with “ trolling” , that being just the “ vehicle” that carried the later information .

Having said the above, I am not arguing with the more recent ( early 50’s onwards ) history Moley provides ,as I had scant knowledge of it myself, and all contributions here are very interesting.



OMR

[Moley]

Well really the swing 'tip' was invented by Jesus when he told the lake Nazareth fishers to swing their nets to the other side of the boat in the new Testament book of Matthew and lo their nets were full. If that is not a swing 'tip' I don't know what is........so any advance on 2000 years then?

No doubt there is a case for the stick and bone hook being a type of swing tip as the stick, placed in the ground and pointing skywards indicated a bite. This style of fishing is still practised at Cromwell Weir, for barbel, but dates back to the dawn of time.

Nowt new in fishing!

As ever,......

Moley