"Tatty fish..."

[StalkingLuke]

It's surprising how much physical damage is caused by spawning, I sent several images to an EA fish scientist, earlier this year as a lot of the fish I was catching early season including bream, carp and tench had sores, lesions and scales hanging off their bodies. I was a bit concerned that there may have been water quality issues. They replied saying that it was most likely spawning damage and sure enough as the weeks went by the instance of body damage reduced dramatically.

When fully engaged in spawning I've seen carp beached on the river bank and watched them spawning amongst sharp tree roots etc. The tail damage could be mink?

[Gary Bills]

It's surprising how much physical damage is caused by spawning, I sent several images to an EA fish scientist, earlier this year as a lot of the fish I was catching early season including bream, carp and tench had sores, lesions and scales hanging off their bodies. I was a bit concerned that there may have been water quality issues. They replied saying that it was most likely spawning damage and sure enough as the weeks went by the instance of body damage reduced dramatically.

When fully engaged in spawning I've seen carp beached on the river bank and watched them spawning amongst sharp tree roots etc. The tail damage could be mink?

Yes, mink are also a possibility, aren't they?
You do tend to see more scale damage early season, come to think of it...

[Gary Bills]

I suspect that what does most damage to carp is regular captures (that is to say many times a year), followed by being out of the water too long during the same.

With unhooking mats etc, little or no damage should occur, of course; but it is surprising how few people use them, and how few ticket waters insist on them. at least in my part of the world. Photographs are a problem too - some anglers seem incapable of taking a quick one, and the carp can be out of the water for minutes and minutes: increasing the risk of damage: not to mention the anxiety of the carp.

[Gary Bills]

I would support that trend. Carp can survive out of water for quite a long time, as Walker and the CCC found out, but they are certainly out of their comfort zone then.

[DontKnowMuch]

Some 'tatty' fish I would certainly put into the category of either 'old warrior' or 'character fish'.

Much depends on the type of damage and how the damage occured. In the busier commercial waters were carp are hoiked out on a regular basis by anyone who pays the price of the day ticket and the damage is caused by bad handling I'd call them tatty and unfortunate. They struggle to heal their wounds because of them living in obscenely overstocked pools where they have to rely on anglers baits to survive.

Older fish that have gathered wounds or scars over the years from spawning or some other natural event would be my warriors.
We have a mid double common that sustained some terrible injuries whilst in the throes of spawning. So bad were these wounds that we called in someone from the EA as we suspected some flesh eating microbe or parasite. He examined the fish and explained that in the midst of the spawning melee(sp) this fish had come to be wedged in some tree roots of fencing and had forced it's way out. In the process both flanks were ripped considerably and in one place the spine could be seen.

This fish not only survived but it is now gaining weight again after succesfully healing these wounds. Its been labelled as 'The Shagger' because of how it got damaged and is on a lot of members target lists, mine included.

It would be nice to start a trend of getting them back in under the time the angler can hold his own breath...call it 60 seconds then.

I can't agree with that trend myself as I think introducing a rush into the process of handling carp on the bank will introduce mistakes. Nice calm, controlled handling for weighing, photographing and returning the fish with sufficient water available is, I believe, the best we can do for them whilst they are in our care.

[Gary Bills]

Some 'tatty' fish I would certainly put into the category of either 'old warrior' or 'character fish'.

Much depends on the type of damage and how the damage occured. In the busier commercial waters were carp are hoiked out on a regular basis by anyone who pays the price of the day ticket and the damage is caused by bad handling I'd call them tatty and unfortunate. They struggle to heal their wounds because of them living in obscenely overstocked pools where they have to rely on anglers baits to survive.

Older fish that have gathered wounds or scars over the years from spawning or some other natural event would be my warriors.
We have a mid double common that sustained some terrible injuries whilst in the throes of spawning. So bad were these wounds that we called in someone from the EA as we suspected some flesh eating microbe or parasite. He examined the fish and explained that in the midst of the spawning melee(sp) this fish had come to be wedged in some tree roots of fencing and had forced it's way out. In the process both flanks were ripped considerably and in one place the spine could be seen.

This fish not only survived but it is now gaining weight again after succesfully healing these wounds. Its been labelled as 'The Shagger' because of how it got damaged and is on a lot of members target lists, mine included.

It would be nice to start a trend of getting them back in under the time the angler can hold his own breath...call it 60 seconds then.

I can't agree with that trend myself as I think introducing a rush into the process of handling carp on the bank will introduce mistakes. Nice calm, controlled handling for weighing, photographing and returning the fish with sufficient water available is, I believe, the best we can do for them whilst they are in our care.

Yes, on re-reflection, that seems the best policy DKM - I doubt if I return my carp within a minute, - perhaps 2-3 minutes: and if we are counting, are we looking after the welfare of the fish?

[Snape]

Physical treatment is more significant than time (up to a point).
As long as the fish's gills are wet it will continue to obtain oxygen from the air (although not as much as when in the water) and it is not the same as us holding our breath. This is why fish have survived for many hours out of water without seeming to be any the worse for wear. Harsh physical handling and damage from being dropped, flapping about on a hard surface, being squeezed when anglers try to hold it in place during unhooking, extracting deep hooks etc will cause far more long term damage than 2-3 minutes out of water.
If a photograph is necessary it is probably better to quickly have one taken whilst holding the fish over a mat rather than leaving it on the mat and photographing it as it may well flip off and hit hard ground.

[Snape]

I certainly support the idea that fish should be out of the water for as little time as possible and ideally unhooked in the landing net, in the water and released immediately.
We do have a bit too much of an obsession with weighing and photographing fish.