Fly Fishing (Coarse and Trout)

[Mark99]

Anyone recommend a fly fishing /nymphing outfit for dace and small trout/grayling on smallish fairly overgrown river?

The max size of fish would be say 2lb trout.


I know little about fly fishing - after size/make of rod/what number line and what reel.

I do know the dace are buggers to hook when I did it when young.

[Nigel Rainton]

Don't believe anyone who tells you that you need a short rod.

Don't buy a cheap kit, there are plenty of good quality rods and reels on ebay.

Trout up to two pounds from a small overgrown stream sounds fun, just like my 'home' river. I use a 10' #4 rod, a 3" reel and a #4 floating line.

[Liphook]

#4 or even a #5 for general river fly fishing is right but the very last thing you want on an overgrown river is an overly long rod! If your not able to wade then the longer rods of 9' and above can be useful for reaching over bankside vegetation, even on the manicured banks of southern chalkstreams. But under tree canopies etc of more wild rivers excessive rod length is a distinct disadvantage! I use fly rods from 6' to 18'. Horses for courses. I think you'd be looking at around 8' for a #4 as a starting point Mark. Shorter if it's a jungle

[Watermole+]

Don't believe anyone who tells you that you need a short rod.

Don't buy a cheap kit, there are plenty of good quality rods and reels on ebay.

Trout up to two pounds from a small overgrown stream sounds fun, just like my 'home' river. I use a 10' #4 rod, a 3" reel and a #4 floating line.

So sorry Nigel, but with every respect to your fly-fishing experience and expertise, I could not disagree more with you first sentence; in fact, I find myself in total agreement with the above following post by Liphook; just cannot see the reasoning behind trying to use a rod which would be constantly whacking overhead foliage and therefore most unwieldy in a confined space. I would have thought that in small streams, something like a 7' or 7 1/2' of #4 is about right, possibly #5 if by definition, short casting is the norm, to get the rod working quicker.
Of course, if the water is bare and there is no bankside vegetation or trees, there may be a case for it-but certainly not on the West country rivers and streams that I have fished.
With a long rod in a tight space, there is also the problem of netting anything hooked. It might not sound like a problem until you are in that situation then you realise how difficult it is, trying to steer a stubborn fish into a net with a long rod!

I don't know where you fish, but two pound trout from a small stream sounds like Paradise! The trout size in streams here about three to the pound on a good day.

Mark99..I would recommend that you have a chat to others that fish your proposed water; or, if not possible, see what kind of outfits they use.

I do agree with Nigel that you should not buy cheap-but not until you have some fishing experience of that kind to draw on. Until then, learn and make your early mistakes on a balanced budget outfit-and do not buy from anyone who you do not know of-and preferably, not until you have examined the items for yourself. Better still, have someone who knows what he is looking at examine it...Closely.
Unfortunately, a lot of people are shall we say, 'economical with the truth' when it comes to selling unwanted items.. It is all-too easy to be "caught" yourself, which can sometimes be an expensive experience..

With best wishes for your new fly-fishing venture..

wm+

[OldRod]

Mark99
Your choice of rod length in my humble view depends largely on what you mean by "overgrown". I am thinking, as examples, of a couple of small streams I fish - both "overgrown". One has swathes of vegetation at a relatively low level; nettles, Himalayan balsam and so on up to shoulder height-ish, with only the odd tree and bush. Here I would use a long rod; I have a lovely 10ft 6 nymphing rod which does perfectly.
However, on another stream, the untended upper headwaters of a fairly well known river, there are many small overhanging trees, and a long rod would be a disaster. 7ft or so is perfect.
A little story - years ago, I was crouched down under such overhanging trees nymphing in a likely looking little pool in late winter for the lovely grayling to be found there. The stream here varies 12 -20ft or so wide, over a rocky bed. Oh dear (?) I said, snagged on a rock again! Hello, this rock is moving! I had hooked a kelt, and I was furiously wondering how on earth I was going to deal with this on my little 7ft 3 weight split cane wand. I kept low as I definitely did NOT want the fish to see me - it was just meandering up and down the pool in quite a stately fashion, and I knew from experience that this could change dramatically if it saw me!
After maybe 4 or 5 minutes of me racking my meagre allowance of brain cells (unsuccessfully) The Angling Gods smiled, and the size 16 hook pulled out, and Mr Kelt resumed his business. Phew! I hoped Mr K was more successful in resuming his business than I was in mine, as other than him I blanked. Memorable though.

[Ian]

I don’t see the point of a long rod on a small “overgrown” burn. There will only be two scenarios to contend with,either open areas where you will be able to shadow cast without any issues,or heavily overgrown areas where shadow casting is impossible,and A short rod can be used in both these situations whereas a long rod could be a major hindrance,especially if underneath a low tree canopy,and it’s easy to forget your surroundings when hypnotised by a good fish. You will also have to plod through the dense foliage,not good with a longer rod.
Rods these days don’t have to cost the earth,and I personally wouldn’t pay too much for a rod I would be using in a situation where it could be hitting tree branches. A short 3# or 4# will handle 2lb trout without any problems,it’s the reel that I would take my time in buying because the reel would need to have a good drag system for any angry 2lb trout hooked downstream in fast water.
It’s all about getting the fly to the fish,and in your situation,catapult,side and roll casting will be the order of the day.

Good luck with this,whatever you decide mark

[Nigel Rainton]

Watermole+

I fish the crystal clear rivers and streams on the western edge of Dartmoor, the Walkham, Plym, Meavy, Tavy etc. which are well known to you. I also fish a mature downland river in Sussex, the Western Rother. I seek out the most wooded and inaccessible parts for two reasons; that's where the fish are and most members avoid those stretches. It's jungle fishing.

I always use a long rod, usually 10'. I'd use 11' if I could find a nice one. In the jungle I rarely get the chance to cast overhead. Bushes and trees all around, high-wide cover infront, steep banks, marginal plants, you get the picture. It's about dibbling a fly, dapping, roll casting and bow-and-arrow casts. I don't wade, the water is too deep and dangerous.

On more open Beats the long rod enables me to reach over bankside cover, the Itchen has 3-4' wide, waist high, marginal cover. The streamer weed on the Rother often extends from the margins for 3-4' and fish need to be held in mid-stream ready for a landing net with a 9' telescopic handle.

I get tangles and occasionally bash the rod on a branch. Mainly in the open stretches where I'm casting overhead !

[Liphook]

As previously stated it's truly a case of horses for courses Nigel

[Nigel Rainton]

Liphook,

I'd happily use my 10' rod anywhere. In the last couple of months of the season I used it on Dartmoor, in Sussex and on Burrator reservoir.

https://sussex-trout-fishing.com/2022/0 ... iver-plym/

[Watermole+]

Watermole+

I fish the crystal clear rivers and streams on the western edge of Dartmoor, the Walkham, Plym, Meavy, Tavy etc. which are well known to you.

A few parts of some of them, but by no means all. You are a well-seasoned and highly experienced, regular trout fisher/fly tyer on a great many waters of high quality. Burrator of course, is a wide open 140 acre reservoir. You can use any length of rod that you like there; in fact, a long rod would give a great advantage, especially from a boat.

I always use a long rod, usually 10'. I'd use 11' if I could find a nice one. ....
....It's about dibbling a fly, dapping, roll casting and bow-and-arrow casts. I don't wade, the water is too deep and dangerous.

In his initial post, Mark99 says that he is an inexperienced novice and looking for a (I have assumed..) fairly inexpensive outfit to start out with. Casting techniques such as you have listed with a rod that the average trout fisher would struggle with on wooded streams would be beyond the skills of many-and that probably includes myself. I feel it would be grossly unfair to expect a comparative beginner to know such advanced casting skills.
My thoughts are that it is important that anyone learning a new fishing technique should derive pleasure from it from the outset. Learning even the basic timing of the overhead cast doesn't come naturally to many!

On more open Beats the long rod enables me to reach over bankside cover, the Itchen has 3-4' wide, waist high, marginal cover. The streamer weed on the Rother often extends from the margins for 3-4' and fish need to be held in mid-stream ready for a landing net with a 9' telescopic handle.

The ability to use a net with a 9' handle whilst handling a lively fish on a 10' rod in a densely wooded jungle puts you in the advanced class, way beyond my own abilities, let alone a novice..

I get tangles and occasionally bash the rod on a branch. Mainly in the open stretches where I'm casting overhead !

I'm with you there! I took the top eye clean off of my 8' Rudge 'boys rod' once, when fishing near Shaugh bridge!

I think that we will have to agree to differ on the best outfit for a beginner Nigel; but perhaps we might meet one day on the river next season and I might learn some new casting skills from you..?

wm+