Guides and Ghillies

[Iasgair]

Over the years fishing and going to fly tying shows, I have noticed that fishing guides show up for both. I have squatched guides on rivers and creeks many times ( squatched means watching them undetected ) and they only use two tactics, streamers and nymphs. I understand that trout eat 80% subsurface, but there's more to it than that. There's more to fly fishing, but I also know guides and ghillies serve a purpose to make money because it's a business.

For the last few times I have been out fishing I have used a nymph on the bottom of my rigging and the fish have preferred the wet fly or dry fly I have above it. I fished with a nymph for four hours this morning and the fish wanted the wet fly, then after a while I took the nymph off and kept the wet fly and put on a dry fly. So stick with what's working.

I'm curious; how do your guides / ghillies work with clients? Nymphs do catch fish and so do streamers, but it seems like the easy way to go, at least here in Colorado because streamers catch big trout and every guide wants the client to be happy. I'm sure it's the same thing in the U.K.. But I can see ghillies there using more of the traditional ways and maybe using nymphs and streamers as a last resort. Then again, I could be wrong and probably am.

I'm not the greatest fly fisher in the world, though some would disagree, , but if I was a guide, I'd try to show and share with my clients the traditions of fly fishing and use dry and wet flies first. If that failed, then go with nymphs and streamers.

Why do I bring this up? Because it's all I have seen from guides having people fish with nymphs during Summer and streamers in Spring and Fall.
Ha ha, I remember one Spring during runoff I was across the river from a guide with a client, and he was showing her how to fish with a streamer, which I won't argue that that's a good way to get fish during runoff, but I was casting right up against the bank with an RS-2, a very small fly, and I was catching more fish than they were. So I just don't get it on why they stick with two styles of fishing. Is fishing with nymphs and streamers that much better? At times I'm sure it is, but not every time.

How do they do it in your country?

[Moley]

Hi Iasgair,

Believe it, or not but Fatty used to guide on the chalkstreams, mostly the Wylye and Avon, on rare occasions the Nadder.

Personally never fished the streamer style but in answer to your question re Nymphing and why?

Simplicity is the answer.

The basic Netheravon Nymphing to set up for clients is easy and if shown the way to watch for bites almost guarantees they will catch.

All tyros want to catch and are so pleased to do so.

Should they catch more trout than they have ever done so before they think you as a guide can walk on water. It's a good feeling helping someone achieve their desires with regard to fish; catch the little so and so's.

In so doing another fisherman is born.

Also the Nymph style taught by Fatty will stand them in good stead should they fish elsewhere. They will catch so not be embarrassed in the company of other more experienced men.

Obviously they will need to learn other techniques and progress but the basic Nymph style, once shown will stand anyone in good stead for the future.

That's why Fatty taught and used the Nymph.

Hopefully this answers your query.

As ever,...

Moley

[Iasgair]

Hi Iasgair,

Believe it, or not but Fatty used to guide on the chalkstreams, mostly the Wylye and Avon, on rare occasions the Nadder.

Personally never fished the streamer style but in answer to your question re Nymphing and why?

Simplicity is the answer.

The basic Netheravon Nymphing to set up for clients is easy and if shown the way to watch for bites almost guarantees they will catch.

All tyros want to catch and are so pleased to do so.

Should they catch more trout than they have ever done so before they think you as a guide can walk on water. It's a good feeling helping someone achieve their desires with regard to fish; catch the little so and so's.

In so doing another fisherman is born.

Also the Nymph style taught by Fatty will stand them in good stead should they fish elsewhere. They will catch so not be embarrassed in the company of other more experienced men.

Obviously they will need to learn other techniques and progress but the basic Nymph style, once shown will stand anyone in good stead for the future.

That's why Fatty taught and used the Nymph.

Hopefully this answers your query.

As ever,...

Moley

Moley, I guess what I'm terribly trying to say is most of the guides I see are young men and to be considered by clients or even staff members, these are supposed to be the experts of the trade. Though I never even see them fishing with other techniques.

So my question is I guess, are guides and ghillies as good as some may believe because they seem to only fish two techniques, at least here in Colorado. I have seen them even fishing this way when not guiding.

Don't get me wrong because its all up to the fisherman to decide how they want to fish, so I'm not judging them. But these young guides are missing some great action and fun not fishing dries and wets.
One guide told me Thursday he never even considered using winged wet flies because he doesn't see anyone fishing them, so he thought they weren't with using.
Not true! I told him they have just taken a backseat for so many years and then became forgotten about, so the new fishermen trying to learn never progresses because of their ignorance.
He said he should give them a try and then asked the best way to fish them in my opinion.

Plus, to spend hundreds of dollars in just a few hours to catch a fish with a nymph? Laughing Grizzly charges $500 for a full day of fishing. For $500 I will teach anyone to fish and it would be a week long class using different techniques.

I just think its a rip off hiring someone to take you out for a few hours to help you catch a fish or two and you only learn one way. Then what? Hire them for another $500 to show you the dry fly method? I think it's doing nothing but hurting the client for that amount of money they pay. The one thing is guides do know where the good spots are so the success rate goes up for the client, but after one session can a client GI on their own and read the water? You have pools, riffles, runs, eddy's and other slack water and on a big river it can get overwhelming to a newcomer.

My grandfather taught me to fly fish with wet flies and dries when I was young and he taught me to read the water and I do fine fishing. I share my knowledge to others I meet on the rivers and give them flies that have been working for me that day. They leave very grateful and had to spend no money.

Should guiding catch up and actually teach clients to fish, or just throw a nymph on and take them to a good spot holding fish so the client is happy and the guide gets a good tip? Seems to me the client would be happier knowing different styles and knowing different areas on the water and how to approach such things.

Just my humble opinion.

[Moley]

Most guides are of a reasonable standard but not as good as they think they are.

The guiding offered by my Fat self was as a prize won by the members of the Salmon & Trout Charity,
now renamed and rebranded Wildfish. Most of the fly fishers taken out by me were Salmon Anglers and had very little idea about Trout. The Netheravon Nymph style I showed them meant they could get amongst the fish from the off.

Dry fly and Wet fly take a bit of time to get the feel for, especially wet fly techniques and to be honest to attempt to show an inexperienced angler how to control a team of two three or four flies on a long leader is more than a day's work. It takes years to develop the feel needed to cast this set up and when a fish takes can be an almost sixth sense, the result of many years fishing this way. Plus wet fly techniques are not wholly approved on the chalk rivers.

The Nymph, Netheravon style and upstream dry fly are the approved fishing techniques. Obviously if dry fly is used there must be some attempt to match the hatch, which does require some knowledge of the insects you are trying to represent. Again asking a bit much in one day.

The Sawyer Nymph and Killer Bug are really the only two flies (nymphs) you need on Chalk Streams. Yes that is over simplyfying it but really if you fished with these two reprobates only you wouldn't be short changing yourself with regard to fish caught.

The individual if they want to progress will obviously want to learn dry fly at the very least but it takes time so if clients want to catch fish from the off then a basic Nymph approach is the simplest way.

Not probably what you want to hear but there it is.

As ever,...

Moley

[Iasgair]

Most guides are of a reasonable standard but not as good as they think they are.

The guiding offered by my Fat self was as a prize won by the members of the Salmon & Trout Charity,
now renamed and rebranded Wildfish. Most of the fly fishers taken out by me were Salmon Anglers and had very little idea about Trout. The Netheravon Nymph style I showed them meant they could get amongst the fish from the off.

Dry fly and Wet fly take a bit of time to get the feel for, especially wet fly techniques and to be honest to attempt to show an inexperienced angler how to control a team of two three or four flies on a long leader is more than a day's work. It takes years to develop the feel needed to cast this set up and when a fish takes can be an almost sixth sense, the result of many years fishing this way. Plus wet fly techniques are not wholly approved on the chalk rivers.

The Nymph, Netheravon style and upstream dry fly are the approved fishing techniques. Obviously if dry fly is used there must be some attempt to match the hatch, which does require some knowledge of the insects you are trying to represent. Again asking a bit much in one day.

The Sawyer Nymph and Killer Bug are really the only two flies (nymphs) you need on Chalk Streams. Yes that is over simplyfying it but really if you fished with these two reprobates only you wouldn't be short changing yourself with regard to fish caught.

The individual if they want to progress will obviously want to learn dry fly at the very least but it takes time so if clients want to catch fish from the off then a basic Nymph approach is the simplest way.

Not probably what you want to hear but there it is.

As ever,...

Moley

Very good comment sir.

It certainly does take more than one day to learn and wet flies do take a certain skill to detect a take.
I guess nymphs are the best way to learn for someone just getting into the sport. But I'll be danged if I'd spend $500 to take a few hours to try and learn. I never hired a guide and never will.

Thank you for your honest words.