The Traditional Fisherman's Forum

Just wondering what it would probably cost today to make a speedia centrepin. How difficult or hard would this be
Any one have any thoughts on this ?

I did suggest it as a TFF project when we were discussing the Barder pin and its production costs. As a one off a replica Speedia would be very expensive but if a batch were ordered then the cost per unit would be something rather more reasonable. The difficulty is that most would want to see the finished product before committing cash and to get that far would require a hand-made prototype which is the very expensive bit. A good project for an enterprising soul. If I had the capital I'd take the risk and do it myself. That written I'm not sure of copyright issues.

Yes I agree again not sure about copyrights either. I have suggested before that someone should start to make these again. Did you get as far a working the costs involved?
If its feasible sounds good

I'm not sure that there are any copyright issues. If the design was patented, as they used to be, then the owner of the patent might object but that's another issue and, any way, even if it was patented once it may well have lapsed through time or actually have no owner after the original company went out of business.

You can make replicas of anything you like so long as you don't try and pass them off as originals or compete with the originals. These issues never seemed to bother Mordex or, more recently, Fred Crouch.

Trying to find an engineering company to do the work may be an issue. Although, not angling related, I contacted a considerable number of companies, to re-manufacture some classic car parts, which are no longer available. Most did not respond. Those that did wanted full blown CAD drawings and confirmed orders of several thousand parts. The reason being that the setting up and tooling costs would be high. With only 600 of said cars still on the road, it turned out to be an uneconomic proposition. The unit cost of something as complex as a reel are likely to be off putting to most.

Possibly a job for a modern day Harry Reynolds. A Speedia is not exactly a complicated piece of engineering.

I thought I read somewhere that a patient laps after 25 years,I could be wrong but might be worth someone who has legal knowledge to look into.

I thought I read somewhere that a patient laps after 25 years,I could be wrong but might be worth someone who has legal knowledge to look into.

I had to deal with some of this stuff in a job where I managed university research contracts. The relevant stuff on intellectual property (IP), copyrights and patents is relatively easy to find online. I also asked a country music friend of mine who's a patent lawyer. I think that was the old position (e.g. Hardy's original full bale patent lapsed after 25 years in 1949 and everyone else then started making full bale reels - although see below). The copyright and patent system began to change radically after WWII and, obviously, has also been greatly affected by membership of the EU. In the UK now a patent has to be renewed after four years and then annually thereafter with a fee payable, up to a maximum of 20 years, otherwise it lapses. It is possible to have a lapsed patent reinstated if it can be shown that the failure to renew was 'inadvertant'. But patents are less important these days compared to the much more extensive legal framework of intellectual property.

Given when it was first produced, it is, I think, very unlikely that the Speedia was ever patented (and copyright refers to other less tangible things see: http://www.inbrief.co.uk/intellectual-p ... basics.htm) but it could have been a Registered Design (although again I think this unlikely) which is initially valid for five years and can be renewed for a further four terms of five years, hence 25 years maximum after which it lapses. If it was never registered it could have been claimed as an unregistered design right, which is similar to but not identical with copyright, but these last only for 15 years after creation of the design or 10 years after manufacture begins. Given that it's rather more than that since they went out of business I don't think there would be any IP problems.

MGs wrote:Trying to find an engineering company to do the work may be an issue. Although, not angling related, I contacted a considerable number of companies, to re-manufacture some classic car parts, which are no longer available. Most did not respond. Those that did wanted full blown CAD drawings and confirmed orders of several thousand parts. The reason being that the setting up and tooling costs would be high. With only 600 of said cars still on the road, it turned out to be an uneconomic proposition. The unit cost of something as complex as a reel are likely to be off putting to most.

When I looked into producing the parts for the Walker carp net I found an engineering company very willing to take on the work. They are happy to copy things so if they were given a Speedia to take apart they would work it all out. Or I can provide the digital artwork that is then taken onto their CAD system. When I started working on the Walker project there was a lot of interest but very little real commitment so I shelved taking it any further. However, I think it was Kingpin that made the short production run of Barder pins. I suggested a production cost and was informed that the actual price was a lot lower than I thought. In which case making TFF repro Speedias would be a very viable project.

The same company also make one off parts for classic cars using a traditional techniques when runs are very small. Or they have a full CAD system.

If anybody is really interested in this project who lives close to Kingpin perhaps they might go and speak to them? I'll a support the project and would order a reel. I guess we'd need to decide on which Speedia to reproduce.

An interesting concept and with the right contacts id say would be achievable, but my first thoughts are, if you are going to go to the effort of commissioning a Limited Edition TFF pin based upon a speedia, would you not make changes to the design, perhaps solid arbour instead of line lay pins.