'Biography' of Chris Yates' Record Carp

[Blunderer]

It had dropped a rather large belly when Chris landed it for the second time and had possibly taken on/absorbed water. I am told this can be quite common shortly before a fish dies. I wouldn't have thought it's framework would have particularly grown so guess the extra 1 1/2" length was from measuring over the body rather than laying the fish on the tape for the true length. Would be interested if anyone knows how it was measured?

John Carver tells me it was definitely hooked once more after its record capture. I wonder what it would have weighed had it been landed? Probably slightly less but it could obviously have been slightly more too.

I thought that most people believed that it had become spawnbound, hence the weight gain and belly?

[Gary Bills]

It had dropped a rather large belly when Chris landed it for the second time and had possibly taken on/absorbed water. I am told this can be quite common shortly before a fish dies. I wouldn't have thought it's framework would have particularly grown so guess the extra 1 1/2" length was from measuring over the body rather than laying the fish on the tape for the true length. Would be interested if anyone knows how it was measured?

John Carver tells me it was definitely hooked once more after its record capture. I wonder what it would have weighed had it been landed? Probably slightly less but it could obviously have been slightly more too.

I thought that most people believed that it had become spawnbound, hence the weight gain and belly?

Reading a Rod Hutchinson interview in the Tim Paisley book, Big Carp, (1993), - it seems that gestation for a carp starts again the moment it has spawned, and so there's never actually one moment when a mature carp is without spawn. Was the Bishop, then, actually spawnbound - ie, unable to release any eggs? Who knows? As with all mature carp, certainly it was carrying spawn. If Hutchinson is right, even Clarissa must have been carrying some spawn when Walker caught her! Does this detract from either of the captures? in my view, no, not in the slightest! We cannot say a human being's weight is incorrect because the body contains eggs or sperm, can we? Hutchinson also makes the point that carp, even when spawning, do not always release all of their spawn. He also informs us that, due to a brief boost/release of hormones, there is normally only a two day/three day period when a carp's spawn becomes exceptionally heavy: and that is when the spawn hydrates - takes on extra water, prior to spawning. Did Yates catch the Bishop at this precise point in her annual life-cycle? Again, who knows? Unlikely, though, I suggest. Was Yates, then, correct to say that the fish had found a new lease of life and had packed the weight on? Well, that's certainly possible.
I just think the "spawnbound" argument, concerning the Bishop, came in early in the period following the capture - to take some credit away from Yates, and that was unfair, for the reasons given above. Yes, the fish died the following year, and it was carrying spawn - but the actually condition of the fish at the time of capture seemed fine to all concerned, so I understand, and it is impossible now to speculate in a meaningful way on the condition of the Bishop as she was on June 16th, 1980. I think we all agree, she looked magnificent then, judging from the images.
Good on Chris Yates!

[Shaun Harrison]

I was intrigued by the body length growth which would indicate a growth in its frame. The 'Old 38' was certainly carrying plenty of hydrated spawn when she sucked in one to many baits.

The record fish scenario to me is little more than a record of how heavy a fish can get, most of the records over the years have weighed what they have weighed simply from a boost of water and spawn. Roddy Porters record from 'The Mid Northants' was a classic case, that fish had never been a natural '50' the same as the Old 38 wasn't. Chris was rather smart in crouching behind the fish rather than lifting it for his pictures. The swollen belly doesn't quite show the same that way.

[Gary Bills]

I was intrigued by the body length growth which would indicate a growth in its frame. The 'Old 38' was certainly carrying plenty of hydrated spawn when she sucked in one to many baits.

The record fish scenario to me is little more than a record of how heavy a fish can get, most of the records over the years have weighed what they have weighed simply from a boost of water and spawn. Roddy Porters record from 'The Mid Northants' was a classic case, that fish had never been a natural '50' the same as the Old 38 wasn't. Chris was rather smart in crouching behind the fish rather than lifting it for his pictures. The swollen belly doesn't quite show the same that way.

It certainly puts the whole "record scene" into perspective, Shaun.I wonder now, has there actually been a record carp, since Walker's, which was not huge solely because of spawn or, shall we say, a suspect heritage...?

[Shaun Harrison]

Despite making my living from carp angling for over 30 years I couldn't actually tell you what weight the carp record is now. I lost interest when the same fish were beating their own record weights each time.

35 years ago I could have told you all the record weights of all the species as well as their captors and listed venues but now I couldn't tell you one of them. Some of the biggest fish I have caught over the years have not been as heavy as some of the others I have caught - if that makes sense? They have had frames to carry a huge weight but thankfully I have caught them whilst they have been in their fighting peak.

As I touched upon above the record to me is simply that - a record of how heavy they can get. The only time I would kick up a fuss about a new record fish is if it was caught by none angling practices - I.E. bait placement or bait boat. Then I would hope that a second record list was formed - boat caught and angled for just to keep the history of angling just that - angling and not trap setting with no basic casting skill involved.

[Carp Artist]

I'm likewise and totally agree Shaun. What is the current british record for carp???

[Snape]

The current record carp is Two Tone (now deceased) at 67lb 8oz.
The bait placement argument opens up a can of worms and what about margin fishing which involves bait placement without casting skill? The Bishop was stalked at close range.
I read somewhere that the IGFA world records are only for fish caught with the bait on the hook and so hair rigs are disallowed. Not 100% about this though.

[Carp Artist]

Yes Snape this could lead to a minefield of what is and whats not. Thanks for enlightening me on the current record.
Just curious .

[Shaun Harrison]

The current record carp is Two Tone (now deceased) at 67lb 8oz.
The bait placement argument opens up a can of worms and what about margin fishing which involves bait placement without casting skill? The Bishop was stalked at close range.
I read somewhere that the IGFA world records are only for fish caught with the bait on the hook and so hair rigs are disallowed. Not 100% about this though.

Badly worded by me. I was meaning using aids other than the rod to present a hook bait.

We would lose a lot of records if having the bait on the hook was a necessity. Certainly we would say good bye to the current carp, barbel, bream, chub and tench records without starting to put my mind to it.

I'm not so sure this is one of the I.G.F.A. rules to be fair but certainly don't mind being told otherwise. A friend of mine in Texas holds more than one record and those are definitely hair rig caught fish.

Not many people here in the U.K. are set up for angling to the International Game Fishing rules. The way we purchase our line is the first stumbling block. I was only really following the British record theme. Some of the I.G.F.A. records are open for anyone to claim. You simply have to land the species on a certain breaking strain in many cases if no-one else has claimed it before. A customer of ours whilst I was at the shop claimed a whole string of light line sea records. He just went down the lists seeing what was vacant, used silly light gear, lost lots of fish but ended up taking a few records as well. It all seemed very much a farce to me.

But hey ho, live and let live but I never felt it was sporting having to let fish fight until they were practically dead before you could land them.

[Gary Bills]

I know Two Tone was stocked at a decent weight, then grew - but was it an English fish to start with..? There are rumours, so I understand...