List of Ambidex Reel Models

[Snoekjaeger]

Hi,

Thanks for your reply.

The dragnut has both the marking "JWY170" and a circled "A" above "SA24" on it (not one in stead of the other as you indicate) ?

I was just reading in another topic on this forum the following "It would also seem to bear the registered trademark No. B632218. The name Ambidex was formally registered as a trade mark on 23rd October 1944". So I suppose it is a Model 1 type 2 dated post-1944 and pre-1946 (approx.).

I also read something on a different forum about the ratchet on the spool, would the first version not have this ratchet ?

Regards,
Jean-Paul

[The VFC]

Hi Jean-Paul - its not as exact a science as you might believe (just ask Moley!) but I'm currently working on a Type 1 and have a Type 2: the Type 1 just has "SA 24" and the circled A on the line drum, the Type 2 has them both as you say. The ratchet on your spool has me slightly confused to be honest, and I've never seen one like it - the early Type 2's (like mine) have no ratchet and the later Type 2's (I think) had the serrated underside that would feature on the No.1 and No.2. Also your reel doesn't have anything to catch on the serrations of the ratchet as far s I can see. The workmanship looks a little suspect too - so I guess its a home-made addition to the reel.

Your comments on the dating are accurate - the Type 2's coming from (probably) 1945-46.
Jim

[Snoekjaeger]

The ratchet had me puzzled too, it doesn't (can't) work either, I assumed it was a later edition spool someone had fitted on an early edition reel ?
The spring on the ratchet doesn't catch in the gear, looks like it has been bend or someone has tried to repair it without replacing (wich is often a bad idea....).

O I'm convinced it is not an exact science :hide: I just love to dig in to this stuff.
I once published a small study on Russian spinning reels, that sure kept me busy for some time :brickwall: you can find it on page 30 of this pdf http://www.vhv-daca.org/VHVblad.27.pdf
But most of my time has gone into French spinning reels, just because those are a little bit easier to find here in Belgium/France. I love the early U.K. fixed spool spinning reels, but they are a very very rare find here (I am not saying they are easy to find over there...).

Any chance of finding a picture of the inside of a Model 1 type 1 ? I would love to compare it to mine.
I read something about the first 200 or so having numbered innner parts ?

Kind regards,
Jean-Paul

[Snoekjaeger]

I tried making a memory list as you can see below, I only noted the "bigger" differences.
Ofcourse there will be many "transitional" reels that will fall in between these.
Would my list be kinda "ok-isch" ?

I'm stuck with the Mk 2... has to do with when they started giving the number Mk 1. I assumed there was no need to give a number "1" untill there was no "2"... but that is probably wrong... as there were Mk 1's with the PROV patent...). Gotta work on that puzzle...

Regards,
Jean-Paul


Ambidex Casting Reel type 1 half-bail 1944 - 1945 black/internal parts are numbered for the first batch of ca 200 pcs made/label on only 1 side/spool marked A-SA24

Ambidex Casting Reel type 2 half-bail 1945 - 1945 black/internal parts not numbered/label on only 1 side/spool marked JWY170 and A-SA24

Ambidex No. 1 half bail type 1 1945 - 1946 still marked "PROV" patent/gold brown
Ambidex No. 1 half bail type 2 1946 - 1947 Patented but not yet marked "LTD"
Ambidex No. 1 half bail type 3 1947 - 1952 Patented and marked "LTD"

Ambidex No. 1 full bail type 1 1952 - 1954 serrated full bail/ratchet / (anti-reverse ?)
Ambidex No. 1 full bail type 2 1954 - ? (up to at least 1959) straight full bail/ratchet/anti-reverse
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ambidex No. 2 half bail 1947 - 1952

Ambidex No. 2 full bail type 1 1952 - 1954 serrated full bail/ratchet/(anti-reverse ?)
Ambidex No. 2 full bail type 2 1954 - ? (up to at least 1959) straight full bail/ratchet/anti-reverse

[The VFC]

Hi JP -

I'll be putting up pictures of the Type 1 (its all finished now) either today or tomorrow on the Vintage Fishing Company site. I only found 2 internal markings (there can be up to 4): main reel housing and cover plate. The Type 2 is up all ready. There appear to be one or two slight errors in your list (e.g. the Ambidex No.1 had the patent number on from the start): can I reccomend the excellent book by Elwyn Attwood on Youngs reels that has an exhaustive section on the Ambidex? Its available from Medlar Press. Note however, that even Mr. Attwood is not 100% accurate or comprehensive in all respects - though, as he says, it is really a series of his observations having seen many reels, and he gets closer than anyone else so far! Moley, a member on here (ignore his slightly perverse liking for Allcocks Recordbreaker reels - a mental aberration that he can't seem to shake) could add a considerable amount to the knowledge base on Ambidexes - and often does so in threads on here.
ATB
Jim

[Snoekjaeger]

Hi,

I had my doubt about the Nr. 1 with Prov patent reference, but I found one on the internet, see pic attached.

I am also confused with the one on the other picture, not marked Mk 1 but with full bail etc.

Regards,
Jean-Paul

[Nobby]

That one isn't 'quite' a full bail. It's the second version FP, or 'flexible pick-up', which was made to get around Hardy's patent on the full bail arm. It's a wire in a tube. In fact thats a fancy one...a de-luxe of sorts, that might be called the third version ( ? ), it has a new folding handle with a big chrome arm on it and I think it will have had the first quick-release spool too.


It's also got the chrome strip on the stem, apparently put there to hide the casting marks .... ( perhaps they couldn't find the file that week :D )

[Snoekjaeger]

That one isn't 'quite' a full bail. It's the second version FP, or 'flexible pick-up', which was made to get around Hardy's patent on the full bail arm. It's a wire in a tube. In fact thats a fancy one...a de-luxe of sorts, that might be called the third version ( ? ), it has a new folding handle with a big chrome arm on it and I think it will have had the first quick-release spool too. It's also got the chrome strip on the stem, apparently put there to hide the casting marks .... ( perhaps they couldn't find the file that week :D )

Thanks for your reply, indeed I should have mentioned full serrated bail as I did in my list above.

Any ideas how it comes the Nr 1 in the picture above still has the "prov" patent on it ?
I thought the Nr 1 was issued "a few years" (1 to 3 years ?) after the "final" patent was issued to them ?

Jean-Paul

[Nobby]

Sorry, I have no Idea JP. I know there were several paptents granted to the Ambidex design.

[Snoekjaeger]

Have been doint some studies on the different patents.

It looks the one in the upper picture is a Nr 2, but it seems it only had this number marked on the box ??? I do not know..., see pictures below (from the internet).

The one beneath it is a "Nr 1" as they shield says, but made :
- before it was Ltd., so before late-1947
- PROV PATENT indicating it was made between filing date of the patent 16/10/1944 and before the patent was final 25/11/1946 (patent 582695-17739)

Wat amazes me is that the "Nr. 1" was already being made between 16/10/1944 and 25/11/1946 ???
That is a very short period (even shorter because of WW II production stop).
I have to believe this reel is rare because after WWII they no longer used the PROV patent number (as it was final by then).

JPC