Dick Walker's views on carp rods

[Santiago]

Big fish has given up and is ready for netting! Be careful though, he weighs much more when out of water!!

[Nobby]

From now on he's Bag-Up Wal!





I'd forgotten the relevence of the 4 degree issue with water, I must confess....when I was at school we'd just won the World Cup.......


So at least we know why the moon has such as effect on fishing now then.....I think.


Does anyone have any aspirin?.....

[Nailbourne]

It's not surprising that members are finding this complicated, because it is. There are so many factors and variables involved! However, BF is right in suggesting the 'bag of water' experiment. Try it first.

Julian's comment about long, slim carp bears out what I said earlier - the fin area/mass ratio is greater than in stockier fish and can give it greater acceleration.

A lot of this argument brings in Physics to 'A'-level standard (mine, at least, in the 1960s), including Newton's Laws! However, a few simple demonstrations will show what's what.

1. Put half a dozen tins of beans into a plastic bag. Tie a string to the handles. Now pull. To move the bag, you have to transfer some of your energy to the bag. If you stop pulling, the bag will stop - this is due to friction (drag). If you were able to do this in space, you'd still have to use the same energy, but the bag wouldn't stop - there's nothing to stop it! But, to stop it, you'd have to apply the same energy in the opposite direction. The bag would weigh nothing, but it would have mass. A moving mass has momentum.

2. Back to BF's 'bag of water in the water'. Same principle as the second part of 2. The bag 'weighs' nothing, but it has mass and to move it, you have to provide energy. But, water exerts drag, and will stop it moving, unless you keep pulling.

3. To prove to yourself that 'water in water' weighs nothing - do as BigFish suggests. Fill a bag with water, attach a spring balance and lower it into water. The balance will register zero. But, when you start to pull it out, the balance will register a weight. Why? Because you're having to apply force to get it to move.

Unless you try all this, argument is invalid. Something may seem intuitive, but that doesn't mean it's correct.

Vive Walker!

[Beresford]

The drag thing IS surely proved by what we experience as a fisherman, when a fish, like a sea trout turns broadside to the current in fast water. Then it feels so much 'heavier'. In fact is no heavier just exerting far more drag.

How does the science pan out when we foul hook a fish? I know from experience that foul hooked carp and trout exert far more pressure on fishing tackle.

[Santiago]

It's all 'counter intuitive' and therefore hard to grasp without doing the experiment for oneself!

I once tried to explain to a friend that light takes time to travel, but we got stuck on his fixation with turning on a light switch and the room being lit up in an instance so I had to give up. He would'nt subscribe to the idea that light from stars takes years and years to get here!!

Foul hooked fish just make more drag!!! 'cause they do'nt come in pointy end first!!

[Nailbourne]

You're now making me theorise, Beresford!

Freshwater fish tend to be slim and streamlined (less drag when moving forward).

A fish hooked in the mouth - i.e. along its axis of movement - can be 'turned' using side-strain. This upsets its equilibrium. (Applied forces again, sorry).

A fish hooked in the back, the belly, or the tail, cannot be so turned. Also, it's easier for such a foul-hooked to turn broadside to the angler, setting up more drag.

Best I can think of!

[Dave Burr]

I can grasp all of the science (even though I failed physics) but the fact remains, fishing with light gear can lead to disasters which are avoidable by upping the gear a tad. Also, the average angler is a ham fisted oaf compared to the likes of Walker and they need some reserve in their set up.

It brings to mind Stef Horak who advocated using light line when maggot fishing for big barbel. He would use a soft rod, small hooks and line as light as 2 to 3lb but caught double figure barbel. He did this because he is a bloody good angler, he understood how the barbel would react and he was patient. He told me that a lot of lads had spoken to him saying that they kept getting snapped up when they tried it but, without fail they all admitted to using 1.5 to 2lb test curve rods! Science is wasted on some people

[TheDodger]

Well Dave, it seems you have got us back on topic again - here is what Dick wrote to me on the topic of line strength (which was, I think, what probably set the whole thing in motion in the first place - i.e. me not catching anything...!)

"When you have caught great numbers of good fish on tackle of a certain strength, and by certain methods, you have the confidence to persist in the use of that arrangement for much longer, instead of feeling that since you are not getting any bites, it is time you made a change. Consequently, I don't lose nearly as many fish through tackle breakage as I used to 20 or 30 years ago!" (this is dated 3rd August 1970)

"I know pretty well what it takes in the way of tackle strength to give an angler at least a fifty-fifty chance of landing any fish he might hook, and I never go finer than that, even though I haven't had a bite for several days. When it comes to catching carp and tench, perhaps the best advice I can give you is to use your judgment and common sense to decide what strength of tackle you are going to need to get the fish you are after on the bank, and then let nothing persuade you to fish finer. If there is one thing worse than fishing for a long while without catching anything, it is finding after all that time that you have hooked the fish you wanted and then been broken. You are worse off than if you had never hooked it at all, because that fish has learned a lesson and is going to be a darn sight harder to catch in future"

"Please don't think I am advocating the use of over-strong tackle that could not possibly be broken, however big the fish and however clumsy the angler. There is no sense at all in fishing for carp, as I have seen some people doing, with tackle that would be more appropriate to the sea than fresh-water. I have seen people using lines as strong as 30lbs. b.s. which practically ensures that they never get a bite. There is a happy medium in everything and I would say that for general tench fishing where the fish run to 4lbs. or more you want to fish with a minimum of 5lbs. b.s.; for average conditions, 6-lbs. b.s., and if there is more than the ordinary amount of weeds, rushes, or snags, then you can safely go to 8-lbs. or even 9-lbs. b.s. without any serious reduction in the number of bites you are likely to get."

"Much the same applies to carp where they are not too big; that is, where they run up to 5-lbs. or 6-lbs.; but if they get up to double figures, then you want a minimum of 8-lbs. b.s.; if you have reason to think there are 20-lbs. carp, then you are better off with 10-lbs. b.s., or in bad conditions, 12-lbs. b.s. I have never found it necessary to go stronger than that for carp, wherever I have encountered them, though I wouldn't mind going a bit stronger if I ever found conditions that seemed to demand it."

"I don't know whether you have read my book 'Still Water Angling' published by McGibbon and Kee; if not you should be able to borrow a copy from your local public library. You may find a few points in it that will be of some help to you. If you are worried about carp or tench being alarmed by your line, you may think that the alarm is more likely to be caused by their feeling it than seeing it, and if so you can try a balanced paste and breadcrust bait which will ensure the line comes out from the underneath side of the bait, where it touches the bottom."

So we know where all the theory behind 'pop-ups' and 'chod' rigs originated now, don't we?

Not much to argue with there, I don't think?

[J.T]

Completely agree with everything Mr Walker has penned.

Many thanks for posting these TheDodger.

[Santiago]

Completely agree with everything Mr Walker has penned.

+1

What he says about line is pretty much exactly the same as I use for all my fishing, apart from some modern braid I rarely use for lure fishing!