Waiting Times

[AshbyCut]

Can I afford a Barder ? No.
Would I buy one if I could afford it ? Yes.
Do I envy those who can afford one ? No ... and I hope they get as much pleasure from their rods as I do from mine.

Thankfully I found TFF where we can all share our pleasures. Hurrah !!! :hat:

[The Tuesday Swim]

I think it is also worth pointing out that Edward Barder is a single person (Sherlock is not my second name!). In the hay-day of cane rods, many manufactures like B James were banging out thousand of rods each year, the Mark IV Carp alone totalled over 15,000. A rough estimate would be 5-10 rods a day for that one factory, Barder maybe 25-30 rods per year?
Some simple business calculations on costs per unit would conclude £1500-2000 per Barder rod is probably about right.
...And have you seen the tube they come in, work of bleeding art!

[Davyr]

I think it is also worth pointing out that Edward Barder is a single person

Ah, that explains a lot - I think B James must have had his missus helping him? :think:

[Beresford]

I think The Edward Barder Rod Co is two people. The man himself and Colin Whitehouse. I'm not sure if CW is a full time employee though. I read 50 – 60 rods a year. Say average of £1700 each, (I've no idea if he builds more coarse or fly rods). But lets say a turnover of 102,000.

With that turnover he has to be VAT registered so 20% goes straight to HM Customs and excise. Leaving about £80,000. I've no idea of the cost of materials, his rent, insurance, utilities bills, business rates, accountancy but let's guess that running the business takes another £15,000. That leaves £65,000 profit to be taxed. Then there are salaries for two people or 1.5 if CW is part time. Now do you earn more than what I guess EB might be making? Then tell me if his rods are really too expensive…

If a coarse rod costs £1500, £250 is VAT. Leaving £1250 for about 60 hours work or less than £20 an hour once materials are taken into account ie not very much for a business to charge for highly skilled work. Compare that to a garage that will typically charge £50 – £80 an hour.

I suspect most of his customers earn very significantly more than he does.

[The Tuesday Swim]

I think it is also worth pointing out that Edward Barder is a single person

Ah, that explains a lot - I think B James must have had his missus helping him? :think:

Indeed, she could whip a rod on both thighs, left Ealing and got a job in Havana in the mid seventies.

[Gary Bills]

All good points - but my impression of "the average wage" these days, not my own, thank God, is that an awful lot of people are on the minimum wage...and sometimes even less...

[Davyr]

...Which is why averages are often pretty meaningless.

[Gary Bills]

...Which is why averages are often pretty meaningless.

Indeed davyr, but my question is not socio-political, - more economic, really. I've just had a look at what "the average national weekly wage" was in 1960, - answer - just over £14. Now we can assume that the majority of folks actually earned less -so let's say Joe Average Angler is earning a tenner a week in 1960. What can his money buy?
Well, using Clifford's "A History of Carp Fishing Revisted," as a quick reference, most cane Mk IVs in the mid 1950s were costing between £8 and £10, so it's fair to assume that he could have bought a MK IV with his weekly wage - just about.
Now, I think we can agree that the actual weekly wage today is anywhere between £250 and £550; but some cane rods will cost four or even five times as much. This is why it's a fair comment to say that good cane rods these days seem to be over-priced, - given that the firms of the 50s and 60s were keen to make a profit too and, presumably, they did so.

[Beresford]

...Which is why averages are often pretty meaningless.

This is why it's a fair comment to say that good cane rods these days seem to be over-priced, - given that the firms of the 50s and 60s were keen to make a profit too and, presumably, they did so.

I disagree. What I don't understand is the double standards: how it's OK for the rod purchaser to expect to earn a decent salary and thus to be able to buy masses of fishing tackle, most of which he won't need, but the poor rod maker is expected to sell his product for a relative pittance? Looking back at history and salaries and disposable income is all very well but I think it looses something in translation, given shifts in standards of living etc. The basic fact is that in today's economy for people to be full-time rod-makers they need to make a profit/living from their labours. I don't understand why the rodmaker should have to accept a standard of living lower than the rod purchaser. (See above, they are businesses not charities.) Time costs money. If anything I think the rod makers undercharge for their time. In my industry (creative) the basic freelance rate is £25 – £50 (or more) an hour. Apply that price structure to a cane rod and the price gets up to £3,000. Honestly, the split cane rods I've bought for £250 have been an utter bargain given the love they've received in their construction.

Barder could probably build down to a price but then it wouldn't be a Barder would it.

I don't see any difference to me saying "I earn £X and can therefore only afford to drive Y brand of car but I'd really like a Porsche. Therefore Porsches should be sold for less so I can have one because I don't see why I have to pay so much for the brand value."

[CrayCane]

I agree with the comments from Beresford. Given the time taken to make a rod, raw materials and overheads I would guess that some current makers are working for a very modest hourly rate. They are selling their rods for little more than the manufacturing cost. To have a sustainable business I would guess that you have to charge something like Barders prices.

Pete