Stick floats history

[Skinboy]

If you think about it a wire stemmed stick has more in common with an avon than a traditional cane stemmed stick,the wire stemmed version being much more top end bouyant as opposed to the more finely balanced cane stem.

[Backhand]

If you think about it a wire stemmed stick has more in common with an avon than a traditional cane stemmed stick,the wire stemmed version being much more top end bouyant as opposed to the more finely balanced cane stem.

I agree, I always used wire stem stick floats myself. I could never understand the reasoning behind using balsa and cane. Knowing that Benny Ashurst designed the balsa/cane floats for fishing on the drop on virtually a stillwater (canal). Unless you can actually catch fish on a river very close in, i.e. off the rod top. where you could actually use them for catching on the drop. You tend to catch fish on rivers by feeding and catching fish further down the swim and usually by slowing the float down in the catching area. Balsa/cane sticks are useless for doing this, they only really work when running through at the speed of the current. Obviously this sometimes works, there are rivers where fishing at the speed of the current actually is the best way. This tends to be on the slower types of rivers. On faster rivers wire stem sticks perform much better as you can run them through at the speed of the current, but also slow them down more easily without them riding up in the water.
I know you can add back shot to stop the float riding up, but I never liked having all those extra shot on the line, when a wire stem did it without.

[Stuart Whiting]

If you think about it a wire stemmed stick has more in common with an avon than a traditional cane stemmed stick,the wire stemmed version being much more top end bouyant as opposed to the more finely balanced cane stem.

Stuart

[Stuart Whiting]

If you think about it a wire stemmed stick has more in common with an avon than a traditional cane stemmed stick,the wire stemmed version being much more top end bouyant as opposed to the more finely balanced cane stem.

I agree, I always used wire stem stick floats myself. I could never understand the reasoning behind using balsa and cane. Knowing that Benny Ashurst designed the balsa/cane floats for fishing on the drop on virtually a stillwater (canal). Unless you can actually catch fish on a river very close in, i.e. off the rod top. where you could actually use them for catching on the drop. You tend to catch fish on rivers by feeding and catching fish further down the swim and usually by slowing the float down in the catching area. Balsa/cane sticks are useless for doing this, they only really work when running through at the speed of the current. Obviously this sometimes works, there are rivers where fishing at the speed of the current actually is the best way. This tends to be on the slower types of rivers. On faster rivers wire stem sticks perform much better as you can run them through at the speed of the current, but also slow them down more easily without them riding up in the water.
I know you can add back shot to stop the float riding up, but I never liked having all those extra shot on the line, when a wire stem did it without.

Totally Agree, I'll second that,

Stuart

[Match Aerial]

On the subject of avons after all these years I am slowly having to except an avon float also with a wire stem produces a much better float, just like a wire stem stick does .
It improves stability, stops the float riding out of the water when holding back, and sets much quicker its fishing almost straight away.
You can also get away with a lighter float at least using less shot down the line in comparision which I believe can make a big difference especially in low clear rivers .
Billy lane never liked the cane stem stick floats because he thought it was the reason why anglers get shelled using the caster without witnessing a bite on the stick.
There is a diagram in his book which describes in detail what is happening below the water all" interesting stuff".

MA

[Backhand]

On the subject of avons after all these years I am slowly having to except an avon float also with a wire stem produces a much better float, just like a wire stem stick does .
It improves stability, stops the float riding out of the water when holding back, and sets much quicker its fishing almost straight away.

MA

[Santiago]

I agree with Firebird. And reckon that the biggest factors causing floats to rise up when slowing down whilst trotting is the line diameter and length between the float and the hook, and with most floats this problem can be reduced by adding more weight directly beneath the float, which is why wire stems appear to work so well. But with less weight down the line one then often needs to use a bigger float for deeper or faster waters so one has more shot down where it counts to reduce underwater bowing of the line . Ultimately, one has to use a balanced set up to match the conditions with the aim being to have the hook near the bottom and the line from float to hook at a reasonable angle. And then of course one may still have to play with the set up depending on how the fish are feeding. I 've fished many times with stick floats, avons etc. trotting the same swim for dace and roach and found that ones placement of shot is far more important than float selection of similar shot capacity. I do think that there's a kind of placebo effect with some anglers being more confident using specific floats for specific conditions, but confidence in ones tackle is key! All in all I think it's a very subjective subject and built on purely anecdotal evidence.

[Stuart Whiting]

On the subject of avons after all these years I am slowly having to except an avon float also with a wire stem produces a much better float, just like a wire stem stick does .
It improves stability, stops the float riding out of the water when holding back, and sets much quicker its fishing almost straight away.
You can also get away with a lighter float at least using less shot down the line in comparision which I believe can make a big difference especially in low clear rivers .
Billy lane never liked the cane stem stick floats because he thought it was the reason why anglers get shelled using the caster without witnessing a bite on the stick.
There is a diagram in his book which describes in detail what is happening below the water all" interesting stuff".

MA

Yep also agree on that one

Stuart

[Stuart Whiting]

I agree with Firebird. And reckon that the biggest factors causing floats to rise up when slowing down whilst trotting is the line diameter and length between the float and the hook, and with most floats this problem can be reduced by adding more weight directly beneath the float, which is why wire stems appear to work so well. But with less weight down the line one then often needs to use a bigger float for deeper or faster waters so one has more shot down where it counts to reduce underwater bowing of the line . Ultimately, one has to use a balanced set up to match the conditions with the aim being to have the hook near the bottom and the line from float to hook at a reasonable angle. And then of course one may still have to play with the set up depending on how the fish are feeding. I 've fished many times with stick floats, avons etc. trotting the same swim for dace and roach and found that ones placement of shot is far more important than float selection of similar shot capacity. I do think that there's a kind of placebo effect with some anglers being more confident using specific floats for specific conditions, but confidence in ones tackle is key! All in all I think it's a very subjective subject and built on purely anecdotal evidence.

Mmm...yea I can see there being some truth in what has just been described

very interesting read Santiago, some wise words there

Stuart

[Backhand]

Wire, cane, balsa - they all float and you can slow them all down as much as you like. If you have a bit of wire in the base, you just need less shot on the line (quite a bit less with wire). The difference is mainly in fishermen's imaginations in my view. If it were not, the anglers who use a certain type of float would catch all the fish.

I agree that all the types of floats do float and you can slow them down. For instance with a ordinary balsa/cane stick the trick is to over shot them and run them through your swim on a tight line therefore you can send them down at any speed you choose that is slower than the actual flow. One of many tricks which works in medium to fast flows is to actually backwind a fixed spool reel. Centre pin reels do this even better. There is always a better float for a certain situation. Coming from a match fishing background, I know that there is always a float that performs better than others. So I disagree with the sentence, " the anglers who use a certain type of float would catch all the fish." because in match situation they do, until everyone else catches on and copies there style. In a pleasure fishing situation it doesn't matter which float you use, you can use your favorite float or the new one's you have just made. They will all catch fish. I always used wire stem sticks when fishing rivers because I found them more versatile. They cast better when having to fish in windy conditions because of the extra weight in the float. They are also better when fishing at distance for the same reasons. It is much easier to slow them down, even though you might still have to over shot them slightly, but not as much as a balsa/cane stick. I have never float fished rivers fast enough to have to use an Avon type float, so can't comment on how good they are in comparing to the others. Billy lane probably prefered Avon type floats because coming from Coventry he would have fished the Severn.