The Traditional Fisherman's Forum

I have seen it there, doesn't look too bad, but as i have a pair of near identical rods i had built I will give it a miss. It would still be nice to compare my beefed up shortened rods with the Mk1 Barbus and my Fred J that was restored by Barder with Chris Yates's one in '95, the inspiration for the barbus maximus as the story goes, seems it's just a shorter handle and a rubber button away from the Fred J from the pictures

How come every Barder rod I've seen for sale has a problem with it in some way. Surely with the price of these rods, the time it takes to actually get one and his reputation a the leading rod maker in the UK these rods should not succumb so easily to problems. There are always mass produced rods from 60 or 70 years ago that are still as straight as a needle for sale, so what is the problem? Is it modern materials or availability of decent cane that's the problem. I'd really like to know?

Hoppy-Doffton wrote:How come every Barder rod I've seen for sale has a problem with it in some way. Surely with the price of these rods, the time it takes to actually get one and his reputation a the leading rod maker in the UK these rods should not succumb so easily to problems. There are always mass produced rods from 60 or 70 years ago that are still as straight as a needle for sale, so what is the problem? Is it modern materials or availability of decent cane that's the problem. I'd really like to know?

I think its more of a case of mr barders rods being displayed badly on anglers walls rather than been used in anger as they should be

Hoppy-Doffton wrote:How come every Barder rod I've seen for sale has a problem with it in some way. Surely with the price of these rods, the time it takes to actually get one and his reputation a the leading rod maker in the UK these rods should not succumb so easily to problems. There are always mass produced rods from 60 or 70 years ago that are still as straight as a needle for sale, so what is the problem? Is it modern materials or availability of decent cane that's the problem. I'd really like to know?

Good shout - although, alternatively maybe it's just the ones with problems that end up for sale, and there's hundreds of happy anglers using them, and wouldn't part with them?

NiceRoach wrote:Good shout - although, alternatively maybe it's just the ones with problems that end up for sale, and there's hundreds of happy anglers using them, and wouldn't part with them?

I think this is correct. Most Barder rods never see the market place and are in excellent condition. Edward services rods and has given mine a once over removing the gentle droop from regular fishing all for nothing.
The reason the MK1 Barbus Maximus was changed to the MKII was that it is very long (mine is 12') and has a fine tip which means unless used with care the tip gets damaged when landing big fish in flow. This is not a design flaw but rather anglers not using it correctly.
Edward would, ideally, like to buy up all the damaged ones that appear on ebay and fix them but it is not practical.

Now that I've actually seen that rod on eBay I'm quite concerned that the kink in the cane is centred around the second intermediate ring down. It doesn't look like a curve caused by fishing at all...it looks like the tip section got badly bent in just one place, possibly by clouting a branch when walking?

I think there's a strong possibility that that cane is damaged beyond repair. Still fishable, certainly, but still irrepairable.


I hope for the new owners sake...there are big bids on it already....that I am wrong.

S'funny, .... the finest tipped coarse rod I know is an Aspindale Suredale...a sort of 12 foot Avocet with a bit more tip to it......I have one from the Fifties and it's still arrow-straight. Perhaps it's just been lucky?

Snape wrote:

NiceRoach wrote:Good shout - although, alternatively maybe it's just the ones with problems that end up for sale, and there's hundreds of happy anglers using them, and wouldn't part with them?[/quot the tip gets damaged when landing big fish in flow. This is not a design flaw but rather anglers not using it correctly .

I think this is a design fault! It is a barbel rod. Last time I checked the barbell was a big fish, which prefers a strong flow. Why design a barbel rod with such a fine tip that it gets damaged landing its intended target. Thios is also a well known problem with the FJT roach rod when used for barbell
Ryan

I am with Ryan on this! Back in 2004 I bought a Mk1 Barbus Maximus in 'as new' unfished condition, to fish for barbel on the Trent. That season I was going through a real purple patch landing over 400, all on cane and mostly on 'pin. I considered myself experience using this sort of tackle, having started on it some 50 years earlier.

I took my 'new' rod teamed up with my Chris Lythe centrepin and fished a very fast flowing swim, where I knew I would catch barbel. In fact I had 18 barbel including 2 doubles and 5 more over nine. I went back to the same swim for my next 2 trips and had similar results, totalling over 60 in those 3 sessions. At the end of that week the previously straight rod had a very slight set to the right, the direction of the flow. I gently straightened the tip and immediately put the rod up for auction and recouped my money.

My thought at the time was that no cane rod was really designed and built to withstand that kind of hammer. On most of the rivers for where they are used, it would be a good season to catch 50 barbel, let alone in a week! For most of my Trent sessions I changed to modern gear and have only recently started to have 'cane days' again.

Around the same time my fixed spool reel of preference was an ABU44X, a lovely little reel. Using one in winter flood conditions, twice I had the spool disintegrate with the front bursting away. This meant having to hand-line in barbel, not fun. I decided that those reels are also not up to modern big fish, so those too were put on the shelf the same season.

Just practical observations from an oldtimer!

NiceRoach wrote:

Hoppy-Doffton wrote:How come every Barder rod I've seen for sale has a problem with it in some way. Surely with the price of these rods, the time it takes to actually get one and his reputation a the leading rod maker in the UK these rods should not succumb so easily to problems. There are always mass produced rods from 60 or 70 years ago that are still as straight as a needle for sale, so what is the problem? Is it modern materials or availability of decent cane that's the problem. I'd really like to know?

Good shout - although, alternatively maybe it's just the ones with problems that end up for sale, and there's hundreds of happy anglers using them, and wouldn't part with them?

I doubt if there are hundreds and hundreds of users - scores of users, perhaps, at those prices: and so the number of problems could be relatively high, as a percentage of rods being made. I don't really know; but someone would..On the other hand, the problem could be down to carbon users switching to cane, not knowing about cane, and making mistakes in how a cane rod is used...

There can be a tendency to lift the tip higher and higher when fighting a big fish. More lift equals more power, right?


I suppose one could put that down to 'user error' rather than design flaw, but a cane rod intended for such a target should surely have a heavier tip section...shouldn't it?