The Traditional Fisherman's Forum

Happily, there have been some good gudgeon in the River Wey and the River Blackwater (Surrey). The points about the cyclical nature of Gudgeon is of interest to me. This coming season I would like to try and capture a club record for this species. It's my guess, but i might be very wrong indeed, that biggish Gudgeon get caught and then get unrecognised as specimen size. I wonder what others think, do we miss specimen Gudgeon when we see them? Weighing them is ostensibly difficult unless you have a set of scales calibrated to deal with modest weights.

They have indeed been very much in decline on the Tees over the last few years, since the vast numbers that were present in the 80s.
I caught a few last year so hopefully the gonks will return.

I am convinced that providing water quality has not dropped too much both dace and gudgeon will come back, it it just one of natures many cycles.
This sort of thing in natural and, in time, nture resets the balance.

Its funny Chris the river I fish according to the environment agency has never been cleaner, but the fishing shows its not any better than it was years ago.
Can a river be in fact too clean and become sterile "I am starting to wonder".

Clean rivers benefit predators. I've an inkling that the lower gudgeon numbers might have something to do with the rise in the number of perch, which has been considerable since the eighties. Of course, other culprits may also responsible, but possibly not as much. And cleaner clearer water with lots of predators about doesn't favour smaller species that are slow swimmers.

The tie in with perch as the main predator would hold some sway, as the GUC is stuffed with perch.. as a days jigging and drop shotting would show.... if you ally that fact with the cyclic nature of the fish, then the reasons behind their "seasons" if you like, become clear...

On the Rivers Hull and Derwent the roach used to be found spread thoughout the rivers in all seasons. These days the shoals congregate near boats and other areas where there is human activity in the winter months. When the weed growth starts in the warmer months they spread out again. As this behaviour is almost certainly linked to cormorant activity it is most likely that the decline in gudgeon is also a consequence of increased numbers of comorants and becuse they are a small fish possibly gooseander.

Dace also declined but if you search in the small side streams where the cormorants wouldn't land you could find dace and gudgeon. Of course these areas are now being visited by otters. When I pointed out the lack of dace in our rivers to the guys in the EA they said that the populations are cyclical to which I replied "not in all the rivers in the country" and "not when you can still find them in the smaller streams. The last I heard was that they were looking into the decline of dace.

What we have is a decline in dace, chub and gudgeon. But an increase in the population of grayling and minnows.

I'm old enough to have seen waterways with beautiful weed growths replaced by blanket weed due to eutrophication and abstraction also a forty year decline in small fish populations. There have been occasional variations in stock levels but the trend has been downwards particularly after the huge increase in inland cormorants (continental sub-species P. c. sinensis). The EA have a vested interest in claiming fish populations are healthy also, most have not been around enough to know what fish populations were like in the past.

Many of the well-known anglers in this country are of the same opinion as me. I remember listening to Dick Walker saying that part of the reason for writing "Still Water Angling" was due to the decline in river fishing. That was in the early seventies; the decline most likely started with the move towards intensive agriculture after the war. My friends who fish in Denmark tell me their rivers are full of fish! There is a fundamental problem with our rivers and increased predation has greatly exacerbated the situation.

On that note, a few years ago in my area of the Thames all the anglers were complaining about the lack of roach to the point it was talked about in the local angling shop. A year later the match men were reporting catching 2 pounders. And now the rivers full of roach.