"Ventilated" Conquest

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Lovatt
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Re: "Ventilated" Conquest

Post by Lovatt » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:42 pm

I wouldn't want to keep you waiting too long here it is, these are the pictures of my Hardy Conquest without the copper slug.
Hardy Conquest.JPG
Pin and retention clip.JPG
Pin cover with no copper slug.JPG
Regards Lovat
Hardy brochure.jpg
I have noticed in another post the one showing the hardy conquest advertised in a Hardy brochure the reel pictured does not have a copper slug in it, see the brochure above, I took it from the other post hope this is ok.

Regards Lovat
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Nobby
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Re: "Ventilated" Conquest

Post by Nobby » Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:00 am

Well that's a first for me! I wonder if it indicates the very first reels made?

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Lea Dweller
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Re: "Ventilated" Conquest

Post by Lea Dweller » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:36 am

Nobby wrote:
Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:00 am
Well that's a first for me! I wonder if it indicates the very first reels made?
It is certainly interesting, I fail to observe many of the differences between certain models. I still remember how excited you were about the differences that you pointed out to me with my early "Flickem Perfection". To me it was just another Young's centre pin, albeit in good condition! We are never too old to learn or absorb new information about such an interesting subject!

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Lovatt
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Re: "Ventilated" Conquest

Post by Lovatt » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:52 pm

I also like J W Young reels and own a Trudex and a Rapidex they feel a little heavier than a Hardy Conquest but perform just as well, Here's another conquest reel with no copper slug for sale on a vintage tackle website scroll down the page to view it http://www.vintagetackle.net/other_pins.htm. Possibly 1955

Might I suggest the slug may be made from phosphor bronze and not copper which would make a very good bearing surface as found on some phosphor bronze and hardened steel lathe bearings. I got the phosphor bronze information from a Conquest being sold on Edward Barder's website http://www.barder-rod.co.uk/specials/On ... 0Reel.aspx.

What ever version of the conquest reel you may have they are all very nice reels and I feel lucky to have one.

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Nobby
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Re: "Ventilated" Conquest

Post by Nobby » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:01 am

That first site is Graham Peplar's, I used to see him at all the tackle fairs, but not for some time now. Well spotted with the Conquest there.

It may well be an alloy, though mine here has that distinct 'pink' copper tone, others have a greyish metal plug there. Clearly there are more variants to the Conquest than the two I originally thought, with various feet and bushings.

Ted, wasn't your reel a Rapidex? I seem to remember looking it over in the café near Portsmouth.

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QuinetteCane
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Re: "Ventilated" Conquest

Post by QuinetteCane » Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:15 am

I am rather with Nobby on this.
I have just scratched the pad on my Conquest, it has the clean colour of copper
and has taken a groove quite easily, not the properties of phosbronze at all!
Not sure it would take kindly to a hammer tap adjustment as recommended if it were so!
I would also take issue with the Conquest true pin claim on the Barder site.
The Conquests' have the fixed pad fitted therefore not a true 'pin' surely?

I wonder if that article by Laurie Hardy could be dated? That could fix the outstanding dating issue perhaps.

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Watermole+
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Re: "Ventilated" Conquest

Post by Watermole+ » Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:25 pm

Without knowing any of the history of metals used by Hardy Bros. in reel manufacturing, I am going to stick my neck on the block and say that it is extremely unlikely that the bearing is just pure copper.
The reason is that copper is one of the best known metals for thermal and electrical conductivity and will "pick up" and bind with any metal it is in non-lubricated friction with.
For those reasons alone, it is very unsuitable, to put it mildly..The last thing you want a bearing to do is heat up and grind together!
However, it easily alloys with a number of other elements which completely change the character of the metal. When alloyed with tin, we have basic bronze, but when other trace elements such as lead or nickel are introduced, a whole new field of applications open up, the best known I suppose being "Phosphor bronze", which is a general name for the metal universally adopted for bearings in different forms. "Cuni" as copper-nickel+other traces is sometimes known, is a wonderful material for marine bearings and other fittings, totally impervious to salt water and many corrosive environments. This alone has many different mixes and registered names.

Phosphor bronze is not a fixed proportion of trace elements. The ratios can vary tremendously, according to the desired intended use and the colour will vary accordingly to the mix.
Bronzes are tough, rather than 'hard' metals. They are very malleable, but will wear out the hardest steel-which is why they are eminently suitable for bearings. Even that dreadful stuff known as "Oil-lite" is a loose bonded copper alloy impregnated with oil.. (If anyone out there would like a few small cast billets of it, let me know. I have some and hate the stuff!)

I do not know the formula for the metal used by Hardy bros. but I do know that there is one helluva lot of licence taken by some vintage tackle dealers today in their sales advertising, a great deal of which is just pure, airy speculation and guesswork in the hope of fooling the unenlightened...You know the old saying.."Bull**** baffles brains!"
Any yellow metal is described as "brass", when often, nothing could be further from it, be it any of the dozens of copper/antimony/zinc/lead/tin+other element metals-or even gold! All white metals are "Nickel silver" etc. etc..
Australian naturally occurring gold has copper in it and has a pronounced 'rosy' look about it. I could polish up a piece of nickel-aluminium bronze and defy anyone to tell it from 18ct...

It is almost impossible to determine the content of any metal from colour alone, but feel that the case for lead bronze in Hardy reels is quite good.
It wears reasonably well, is easy to machine, will run 'dry', can polish up bright -and is cheap. All of which would have appealed to a very cost-conscious company..

..My last and final two denarii worth..My definition of a centre pin reel is one which in which the line drum runs on a centre pin!

wm+

....But lay up for yourselves treasure in Heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through and steal.
For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also
..Jesus of Nazareth, King James AV

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Paul D
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Re: "Ventilated" Conquest

Post by Paul D » Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:40 pm

Totally agree with you WM, nicely put. :Hat:
" I have no intention of changing my habits and fully intend to become even more weird as I age."
The Old Buffer

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Lovatt
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Re: "Ventilated" Conquest

Post by Lovatt » Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:25 pm

Very interesting and educational too, I am totally with you guys!

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Nobby
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Re: "Ventilated" Conquest

Post by Nobby » Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:42 pm

When I was young 'phosphor bronze' was the magic stuff that made your motorbike go faster. Folk were forever replacing bearings, even valve guides, with the stuff. It didn't make them go faster, of course ( though it could empty your wallet quite quickly), but it was supposed to do away with more friction so you had better reliability in a tuned engine. In truth engine tuning was in its infancy then and nothing really worked well until Keith Duckworth invented the four valve 'pent-roof' combustion chamber and we could actually have high compression without pistons with a mountain range on top of them. Oilite I remember as the left hand crank bearing on a BSA Bantam that always wore out and made your ignition timing and contact-breaker points gap do whatever they wanted.

I've always referred to the 'plug' in the centreboss of my Conquest reel ( and the one I used to own before it) as 'copper' just because it looked like copper, with that pinkish hue that pure copper has, whereas bronzes seem to always have a yellowish brass colour.

Quite what it really is I haven't a clue...what do you think?:
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