continental and UK beach fishing rods

[Hamburger]

Hi everybody.
I'm looking for information on vintage beach casting and rock fishing rods.
I will spend the holiday in Lisbon and try some beach casting there. A friend gave me a lovely 15ft Noris 1142 beachcaster (as I found out made about 1958), which I am going to use there. Whole cane with split cane tip section. It's a nice flexible rod capbable of casting weights up to two ounces. I cast about 65 yards with my Sea Jecta III De Luxe. Traditionally we use fixed spool reels for beach fishing on the continent, but I am a cane and pin and multiplier addict.
Now I read that UK anglers traditionally prefer shorter rods and multipliers for beach fishing. But what does shorter mean? 8ft, 10ft, 12ft? What kind of rods are those? Stiffer than the fresh water rods (like MK IV or similar)? Whole cane all the way? It's really hard to find sth about vintage beach casting rods. I searched the creel magazines. I learned a lot about tackling a.s.o from Clive Gammons and Leslie Moncrieffs sea columns. It was really helpful. But, of course, they seldom write about rods n reels. No endorsement deals in those days, thank god.
Any sea anglers around to help me out?

[JohnL]

Prior to fibreglass proper beach anglers used a 12 or 13 foot carpet cane as one piece with rings whipped on - difficult to manage but they could cast. The first proper beachcasters that did the job were the fibreglass ABU zoom 484 in 11' 6", combined with an ABU 6000 size multiplier they would do over 200 yards - these are considered vintage and collectable now. Interestingly whilst the rod technology has moved on the reels have hardly changed and you will still see many a 60s/70s ABU multiplier on the tournament casting field.

[DrJohn]

Since I first started sea fishing in the early 1970s I have found my outfit to be uncompromisingly excellent: a friend of my Father's recommended that I bought the following -

Davenport and Fordham Farstrike Clive Gammon Bass rod, an 11.5 foot fiberglass beachcaster
partnered with an,
ABU Ambassadeur 6000 mulitplier.

My schoolfriend's thought me rather eccentric as I used to practice casting after school on the playing field - this outfit has served me well for 40 years.

Clive Gammon was a big influence (still is through his many fine books), John Darling too.

John.

[Hamburger]

Prior to fibreglass proper beach anglers used a 12 or 13 foot carpet cane as one piece with rings whipped on

Carpet cane = garden cane? Or is carpet cane the stuff the carpet whipping stick is made of which my mother used - as far as I can remember - not only for the rugs...

...whilst the rod technology has moved on the reels have hardly changed and you will still see many a 60s/70s ABU multiplier on the tournament casting field.

You're right. I watched amazing youtube videos with pimped vintage abu reels. I have an Ambassadeur 6000 myself and the fitting split cane ABU 8ft spinnig rod which I use for pike and for seatrout spinning in the Baltic Sea. Should be perfect for bass fishing in the surf !

Davenport and Fordham Farstrike Clive Gammon Bass rod, an 11.5 foot fiberglass beachcaster partnered with an ABU Ambassadeur 6000 mulitplier.

I just googled the rod. What a beauty. Let alone the colours: The dark green blank with the bottle-green whippings that was sold at Mullock's. Wow. I want one, please.

My schoolfriend's thought me rather eccentric as I used to practice casting after school on the playing field...

I practiced the Scarboroug cast in the public park with the cane rod and the centre pin reel and I heard a man say to his wife: "Look, darling. This is what they call dry fly fishing."

[Hamburger]

the "gone" Farstrike rod:
http://www.mullocksauctions.co.uk/lot-5 ... ammon.html

[Hamburger]

JohnL wrote:
Prior to fibreglass proper beach anglers used a 12 or 13 foot carpet cane as one piece with rings whipped on

Serious now: Did they use the "carpet cane" with Scarborough reels or already with multipliers?
Thing is:
I still don't know, what's the traditional rod the used with the giant Scarborough reels. I know they were also used for beachcasting. Not only for rock fishing, like I read somewhere else in the forum

I have to quote from that thread: (don't know if that's ok )

... like the old Scarborough outfits, short stiff rods and big pins for winching cod up the cliff face, not exactly cricket but it was about catching food.

So the "short stiff rod" is the "carpet cane", I presume. I have a quite stiff 10ft split cane. It's buildt like a boat rod and the butt end is about 3/4inch in diameter !! I have to try and cast with it with a scarborough reel.

[DrJohn]

the "gone" Farstrike rod:
http://www.mullocksauctions.co.uk/lot-5 ... ammon.html

That was a bargain, I recall when I bought mine new it was around £25.00, the equivalent in today's value of nearly £280.00.

And in jolly fine condition too, and with what looks like the original bag.

I have several Davenport & Fordham rods, one is effectively a miniature (i.e shorter) version of the Clive Gammon rod - I would use it for spinning or even float fishing (Wrasse etc), when close in off rocks into deep water (perhaps with a fixed spool reel), the ABU 6000 with the Bass rod.

John.

[Old-CodJA]

Prior to fibreglass proper beach anglers used a 12 or 13 foot carpet cane as one piece with rings whipped on - difficult to manage but they could cast. The first proper beachcasters that did the job were the fibreglass ABU zoom 484 in 11' 6", combined with an ABU 6000 size multiplier they would do over 200 yards - these are considered vintage and collectable now. Interestingly whilst the rod technology has moved on the reels have hardly changed and you will still see many a 60s/70s ABU multiplier on the tournament casting field.

I have 4 of the ABU 484 'Atlantic' rods that you refer to and whilst it is right to say that it was one of the first beach casting rods to properly exploit the technology of the time, there were many more rod types before that, which were used to develop distance casting as this was thought to be the only way to allow improved catches.

I first went sea fishing in about 1958 with my late father and an uncle who arranged regular organised trips to the East Coast beaches and I do have a pretty big collection of tackle dating back to when I first started. At that time it was still fairly common to see older anglers using a 'casting stick', to throw a baited rig, which was attached to a hand line, for considerable distances and to good effect.

The man who really got the 'casting revolution' going in the UK was the late Leslie Moncrieff, whose prodigious catches of Cod from Dungeness were headline news in the Angling Times back then. I have a Moncrieff 'Springheel'. A twelve foot, reverse taper rod, made from thick-walled hollow fibreglass, a chromed screw reel fitting and three black plastic handle grips, similar to those used on bicycles of the time. His casting style was a modification of the South-African style that became popularly known as the 'lay-back'. Moncrieff pushed casting records to well over 100 yards in the very early 1960s and the development was continued by Peter Bagnall, Terry Carroll, Tony Fordham and many others. The popular reels of the time were the Penn 140 'Squidder' and the Penn 160. Multipliers were feared by many because of the 'birdsnest' that would result from a miss-cast. In the late 1960s K P Morritts introduced the Intrepid Sea-Streak, which had a patented 'Thumatic cast control'. Effectively, a screw on spool brake and although a hopeless tool so far as distance casting was concerned, it did help many get over the fear of multipliers. You can hear one being cast for some distance along the beach, giving rise to the nickname 'Sea-Screech'.

The 'Springheel' appeared in about 1963 and Moncrieff, Dick Walker and Fred J Taylor teamed up with Hardy to develop various tackle ranges further. The latter two had little if anything to do with the sea angling scene so far as I know, but with Les as consultant, Hardy produced the reverse-taper 'Longbow', which was a far better rod than the original Springheel and although heavy, has great bite detection as well as casting potential in the right hands. I was disappointed to see that Hardy do not have one in their museum at Alnwick, but they do have an example of the Hardy 'Tourney', which was the later development and held a record or two for a short while.

In about 1968 Abu produced the 11ft 9 ins 484 and records tumbled almost weekly thereafter for a little while, reaching 200 yards in pretty short order. The nearest rod in terms of competitive ability at that time was probably the Davenport & Fordham 'Surflite', green hollow glass, also with full cork handle on a glass & dural butt section. I have one of these too, but don't often hear of them coming up for sale.

I have around 30 rods & reel pairings from the sea-fishing world covering several distinct periods and with one or two exceptions, virtually all of them made in two pieces, usually making rods from 10 ft to 13 ft in length. These rods include two-piece whole cane, cane & greenheart, built-cane as well as solid fibreglass examples from makers like MARCO, Milbro and others. The hollow-glass era was the most innovative and then through carbon & composites to where we are today. Nowadays I fish the beaches using two 16ft 9ins Shakespeare K2s.

I'll load up some photos of the older stuff when a I get a minute

John.

[JohnL]

Wow fantastic information there John.
From what I gather about carpet canes (a thick long cane that rolls of carpets were wrapped around) they were used with multipliers and cast layback style. I seem to remember Neil Mackellow casting over 220 yards with one, pendulum style, in the 90s at a demonstration casting tournament.

[Old-CodJA]

Thanks JohnL,

Yes, I have one of those carpet cane rods too. It's a two-piece about 13 feet long with huge brass ferrules and pink ceramic liners to the eyes.

The only sea rod that I've been a little lost on was that Millward's 'Sea Ranger' that I posted about a month or so ago. The handle style was so unusual on a sea rod of the time and I haven't been able to find out any more about it yet.

Most of my fishing for years was Coarse match fishing, and I had a long time when I finished match fishing that was devoted mainly to the sea, but I've been properly re-educated to enjoy the traditional styles of coarse fishing from my youth again now. I've always been interested in fishing in all disciplines and have collected fishing gear & books avidly all my life.

The trouble is I'm a real 'magpie type' and have sheds full of old gear, but keep on adding to the collection.