How to correctly fish the lift method.

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Reedling
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Re: How to correctly fish the lift method.

Post by Reedling »

The trouble with fishing the lift method is that it is so exciting I keep missing bites. I get so transfixed on that long slender stem rising gracefully out of the surface film, I forget that I need to strike. I know I miss quite a few bites fishing this method but I do have a smashing time. My tip is balance the bottom shot finely and strike on a rising float if you dare.

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JimmyR
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Re: How to correctly fish the lift method.

Post by JimmyR »

In escense, the lift method is not a bolt rig, thats is what i am saying, when i fish the lift, that is exactly what the float does, it lifts, it never zooms away and why, because the fish is not paniced until i myself strike the hook home, this is the lift method and that is what the post is about lol, unless i am missing something, if i wanted to fish hair rigs and bolt rigs then i would not be here, i would go buy myself a telegraph pole some washing line and set my bite alarms to go off when a fish has in effect "Foul hooked itself" and just pull it in, and announce "Look what i caught" :laugh:
I have been there i have done that, but eventually got bored with not "Catching fish".

Reedling that happens to me a lot lol, transfixed then when it rises still transfixed.

But you are correct when you say "everyone to there own", but not on the subject of lift bites :Thumb: Float ledger yes, but thats a different story :whistle:

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Northern Eel
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Re: How to correctly fish the lift method.

Post by Northern Eel »

Blunderer wrote:
JimmyR wrote:LuckyLuca i will go along with what you say on this mate, the lift method for Tench and carp is probably the easiest way to floatfish for them that there is, as i have said before, the tench can suck in the bait and eject it without even moving the float, and because of the way he feeds the bottom he will become horizontal once he has the bait in his mouth, and when he is at the horizontal he can only do one thing, and that is to lift the tell tale shot from the bottom, then there is only one way the float can go and that is up.
There really is no need at all for any bolt effect, well thats my view anyway, i want to catch the fish, i do not want him to catch himself.
As above. I personally believe that fish hook themselves a lot more than you think. If you fish a lead of any size in a river, or floaters for carp with a bubble float, or slow sinking bait under a waggler, or a lure for pike, or many other 'traditional" methods, then the chances are the fish hooks itself on the take.

I realise that this won't go down too well on this forum, so I say this both with respect and as someone who thinks Chris Yates is the best ambassador for fishing alive, but I think limiting yourself in this way smacks a bit of ludditism.

Of course I temper this with the fact that fishing should be enjoyed on your own terms. To each his own.

All very true and don't forget, the type of fishing needs to fit the circumstances/location.

A lot of my local waters have very weedy and shallow silty margins and to get to the fish you need to cast a long way, this would never work with more traditional floats or centrepins, so I fish (for tench) using large loaded carp floats to get the distance required, I could just as easily use a small ledger as well but I don't beat myself up about the method employed.

Its just about enjoying the fishing and hopefully catching some fish :Thumb:
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LuckyLuca
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Re: How to correctly fish the lift method.

Post by LuckyLuca »

Blunderer wrote:
JimmyR wrote:LuckyLuca i will go along with what you say on this mate, the lift method for Tench and carp is probably the easiest way to floatfish for them that there is, as i have said before, the tench can suck in the bait and eject it without even moving the float, and because of the way he feeds the bottom he will become horizontal once he has the bait in his mouth, and when he is at the horizontal he can only do one thing, and that is to lift the tell tale shot from the bottom, then there is only one way the float can go and that is up.
There really is no need at all for any bolt effect, well thats my view anyway, i want to catch the fish, i do not want him to catch himself.
As above. I personally believe that fish hook themselves a lot more than you think. If you fish a lead of any size in a river, or floaters for carp with a bubble float, or slow sinking bait under a waggler, or a lure for pike, or many other 'traditional" methods, then the chances are the fish hooks itself on the take.

I realise that this won't go down too well on this forum, so I say this both with respect and as someone who thinks Chris Yates is the best ambassador for fishing alive, but I think limiting yourself in this way smacks a bit of ludditism.

Of course I temper this with the fact that fishing should be enjoyed on your own terms. To each his own.

As you say "each to their own" that's not how "I" choose to do it, but that's just me.
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Reedling
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Re: How to correctly fish the lift method.

Post by Reedling »

Northern Eel wrote:Its just about enjoying the fishing and hopefully catching some fish :Thumb:
Nail on the head, Life is far too short!

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Match Aerial
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Re: How to correctly fish the lift method.

Post by Match Aerial »

I am the same don't think I have ever had a Tench hooking itself when fishing a standard lift technique.
Would imagine its possible if you use a lot of weight and in fact produce a bolt rig set up on the float.
The lift technique is great way to fish for Tench but it does not work on all waters, but when its working well I don't think there is a better way to catch them "Magic".
I use the standard set up, described by Fred Taylor in the book Tench Fishing.


MA

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Re: How to correctly fish the lift method.

Post by Blunderer »

Firebird wrote:Not sure I have ever experienced a fish hook itself when float fishing, except perhaps those times with tench when they charge off with the bait and hook themselves against the reel, backwinding away as I suddenly realise what's going on. Nothing to do with shot though.
How do you know it hooked itself against the reel and not the overall resistance of the shot, line, float etc?

Any young boy who float fishes all summer and gets distracted easily will tell you how often a fish hooks itself on the take. What a strange discussion this is.

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Re: How to correctly fish the lift method.

Post by Nobby »

I've been following this thread for a while now and it's certainly true that no method or style of fishing, outside of the dry fly brigade, evokes such strong feelings in fisherman.

Here's my thoughts...which aren't worth much, it's true....

It's really only carp that can be fished for using the 'bolt rig' as they are under normal circumstances the only fish that shuts its mouth and 'bolts off' upon feeling resistance in its mouth. I once got in an awful tangle when a carp took my bait and it must have been a full 40 seconds before I was able to actually pull back....the carp was still gripping the bait at that point but soon spat it out again.......

However, there's always a chance that a fish might self-hook itself....(note the bolt rig doesn't normally self-hook...the carp just shuts its mouth!) against the resistance of a weight or a perch bobber float for that matter.....and the 'lift method' is supposed to use a single shot big enough to cock the float so it must be a possibility.


There seems to be two schools of thought though. Richard Walker who wrote about the Taylor brothers success with the method...and bear in mind he did actually fish with them....seems to view it in a different method to John Wilson who wrote rather forcefully on the subject having seen it done 'wrong' so often.

Wilson wrote that the float rising should 'fall-over' and it was this falling that bore the weight of the single shot. A cantilever if you will?

This rather limits the distance at which you can fish the method if Wilson is to be followed as a single swan is going to need a HUGE float to lift it........not exactly subtle.......Wilson almost demands it be fished with a single bit of peacock quill attached to the line by a single rubber at the bottom and the float be cocked by loading the line against the weight....and it must be a single weight.

I'd imagine the stretched rubber band is adding to the cantilever effect in truth, as it tries to lay the line tight against its body once more.....?

I think a lot of anglers set up a rig to show 'lift bites' but aren't actually fishing the 'lift method'.

Who cares if what you do produces fish?.......well John Wilson did a bit....... :Hahaha:

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Re: How to correctly fish the lift method.

Post by Stathamender »

I'm with you, Nobby. This is in danger of slipping into the Wilson type essentialist arguments (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essentialism). We see this also with drop-shotting with arguments that certain methods aren't 'really' drop-shotting and the (one true\) method is....

Walker, as I recall, describes seeing the Taylor bros fishing with a single swan shot close to the hook, the line secured by a rubber band to the bottom of a piece of peacock quill cut to length so that it would have exactly the buoyancy to cock the float correctly. With this kind of arrangement obviously when the shot is lifted by more than the length of the quill, the float will lie flat. It also seems obvious to me that one can strike on the lift rather than waiting for the flat. But Walker in his various articles, some of them in the two 'Pitch' books, talks about variations on this method. One obvious one, (I can't remember if he talks about this at all) that I used very soon after starting to use this method over 40 years ago, is to use shot up the line to lower the weight of the tell-tale shot to reduce the likelihood of scaring the fish into dropping the hook.

My preferred view is: there is a set of still water float fishing methods, known collectively as 'the lift method', which mainly depend on bites being shown by a float lifting in the water to some degree, even to the point of lying flat on the surface. They are characterised by part or all of the shot weight needed to cock the float correctly being positioned close to the hook, usually at a few inches distance. These methods are used in pursuit of those fish (e.g. tench) which feed on the bottom with their bodies at an acute angle to the floor of the swim and their mouths pointing downwards, and, immediately after taking the bait change position in the water so that they are now lying parallel to the floor. This has the effect of lifting the weight anchoring the baited hook and causing the float to rise in the water. This method was first described, it is thought, by Richard Walker in the early 1950s as one used by the Taylor bros who fished with a single swan shot close to the hook, the line secured by a rubber band to the bottom of a piece of peacock quill cut to length so that it would have exactly the buoyancy to cock the float correctly. Many variations of the basic method have since been used and remain in use today.

On the question of 'bolt bites', it's not unknown in my experience, for a fish to take the bait, raise its head and swim away, which produces a short lift followed immediately by the float submerging.
Last edited by Stathamender on Thu May 28, 2015 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nobby
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Re: How to correctly fish the lift method.

Post by Nobby »

I'd go along with that :Thumb:

"On the question of 'bolt bites', it's not unknown in my experience, for a fish to take the bait, raise its head and swim away, which produces a short lift followed immediately by the float submerging."


That makes sense...though when I used to deliberately target crucians I had no shot down near the hook, so didn't get a lift....more that the float dithered a little before slowly sliding off sideways. Invariably I'd strike to nothing, so I started to let the bite develop more and more. I became convinced the fish were 'balancing' the bait on their bottom lip until they had moved off some considerable distance because I only ever hooked a fish when it seemed to me that I had been recklessly slow to strike.
Invariably I got tench not crucians, the golden ones having switched to night feeding on the left over freebies.


So, as you can imagine, I'm frankly amazed that tench can be caught using a swan-shot!

I rarely fish tell-tale shot and pinned down lines, but I did once resort to a largish weight on the deck when a pond was being topped up and the whole thing became a slow whirl pool. I'd not got a bite until then, but there followed two hours into the dusk where every bite was a lift bite and I had the time of my life.

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