High drama in the Top Pitch, Redmire.

This forum belongs to Redmire Pool.
User avatar
Jardine
Roach
Posts: 290
Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:09 pm

Re: High drama in the Top Pitch, Redmire.

Post by Jardine » Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:16 pm

Snape wrote:
Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:41 am
Jardine wrote:
Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:16 am
Nice fishing Gurn, was just wondering whether the fish you caught were all commons or are there some mirrors or leathers being caught?
It seems that the fish are reverting back to fully scaled fish, is this the case?
Best regards
Mem
Mem, The fish in Redmire have been reverting to commons for a while and in the last couple of decades fewer mirrors and nearly no leathers were caught. One of Les's plans was to reintroduce mirrors and leathers by having Redmire fish bred at Sparsholt college and the mirrors and leathers selected and reintroduced. About 7 years ago around 30 small fish were released into the pool.
However due to the problem with ghost carp in the pool which have been there for at least 10 years any fish which do not pre-date their introduction may need removing.

Carp genetics is interesting stuff and I wrote a piece explaining it and why reversion occurs some years ago here
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=355&p=2180
Thank you for the piece on carp reversion Nigel, you must have put a lot of time into it.
Any idea what the biggest mirror or leather carp in Redmire weighs?
Best regards
Mem

User avatar
Snape
Salmon
Posts: 8737
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 11:52 am
Location: North Oxfordshire
Contact:

Re: High drama in the Top Pitch, Redmire.

Post by Snape » Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:23 pm

Jardine wrote:
Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:16 pm
Snape wrote:
Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:41 am
Jardine wrote:
Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:16 am
Nice fishing Gurn, was just wondering whether the fish you caught were all commons or are there some mirrors or leathers being caught?
It seems that the fish are reverting back to fully scaled fish, is this the case?
Best regards
Mem
Mem, The fish in Redmire have been reverting to commons for a while and in the last couple of decades fewer mirrors and nearly no leathers were caught. One of Les's plans was to reintroduce mirrors and leathers by having Redmire fish bred at Sparsholt college and the mirrors and leathers selected and reintroduced. About 7 years ago around 30 small fish were released into the pool.
However due to the problem with ghost carp in the pool which have been there for at least 10 years any fish which do not pre-date their introduction may need removing.

Carp genetics is interesting stuff and I wrote a piece explaining it and why reversion occurs some years ago here
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=355&p=2180
Thank you for the piece on carp reversion Nigel, you must have put a lot of time into it.
Any idea what the biggest mirror or leather carp in Redmire weighs?
Best regards
Mem
The biggest mirror to have come out in recent years (although not official, but via a reliable source) is the big linear which was apparently 42lb a few years ago. Thought by many to have been Dick Weale's fish but not so as revealed by JPC here
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=14425&p=321532
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.
~Henry David Thoreau

User avatar
Dave Burr
Salmon
Posts: 8074
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:03 pm
Location: Not far from the Wye
Contact:

Re: High drama in the Top Pitch, Redmire.

Post by Dave Burr » Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:55 pm

Gurn wrote:
Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:43 pm
Dave Burr wrote:
Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:48 pm
Great pics Gurn, you seem to be getting to grips with the place.
Cheers mate, think I've had around 25 carp from the pool now, and only one was a recapture.
I remember, you re-caught your first fish. So many coincidences at that pool.

User avatar
JPC
Ruffe
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:02 pm

Re: High drama in the Top Pitch, Redmire.

Post by JPC » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:39 pm

Snape wrote:
Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:23 pm
Jardine wrote:
Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:16 pm
Snape wrote:
Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:41 am
Jardine wrote:
Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:16 am
Nice fishing Gurn, was just wondering whether the fish you caught were all commons or are there some mirrors or leathers being caught?
It seems that the fish are reverting back to fully scaled fish, is this the case?
Best regards
Mem
Mem, The fish in Redmire have been reverting to commons for a while and in the last couple of decades fewer mirrors and nearly no leathers were caught. One of Les's plans was to reintroduce mirrors and leathers by having Redmire fish bred at Sparsholt college and the mirrors and leathers selected and reintroduced. About 7 years ago around 30 small fish were released into the pool.
However due to the problem with ghost carp in the pool which have been there for at least 10 years any fish which do not pre-date their introduction may need removing.

Carp genetics is interesting stuff and I wrote a piece explaining it and why reversion occurs some years ago here
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=355&p=2180
Thank you for the piece on carp reversion Nigel, you must have put a lot of time into it.
Any idea what the biggest mirror or leather carp in Redmire weighs?
Best regards
Mem
The biggest mirror to have come out in recent years (although not official, but via a reliable source) is the big linear which was apparently 42lb a few years ago. Thought by many to have been Dick Weale's fish but not so as revealed by JPC here
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=14425&p=321532

Interesting thread, and a great piece on carp reversion by Snape, thank you. However my understanding of the original stocking was that Donald Leney stated that all the fingerlings stocked were either mirrors or leathers, no commons. Leney believing that Walkers fish was one of an early spawning by the original stocking. Kevin Clifford doubted that all the fingerlings were mirrors or leathers and questioned Leney on the subject. After several discussions Leney conceded that maybe a few commons were in the original stocking and possibly Walkers fish may have been an original. So pretty sure it wasn't a 50/50 stocking. The other statement I would doubt is that "a few lovely original mirrors" are still swimming in the pool, I would think they died out many years ago.
The fact that that the fish spawned in the lake are reverting to commons is something that has been happening for many years, certainly long before I first fished there. What is interesting is that back in the seventies you could net a bunch of weed in high Summer and find twenty or thirty tiny carp in it, and it would often be an even mix of mirrors and commons but it seemed that hardly any of the little mirrors survived the upcoming winter whereas quite a few of the commons did !
During the years I fished there we reckoned the mix of the twenty pound plus fish was about 60/40 in favour of the commons to the mirrors and leathers (most of the so called leathers did have the odd scale or two, only the "nude leather" was devoid of any scales). However the smaller, under twenty pound fish seemed to favour the commons at a rate of ten to one, it was very rare for a small mirror to be caught.
In the early eighties most of us in the syndicate reckoned the Pool held around thirty five twenty pound plus fish and perhaps a similar number of smaller fish (quite a few had been removed and sold to various parties over a number of years, with the owners permission and with the appropriate paperwork).
Sadly towards the end of the syndicates control and over the following two years several known twenty pound plus mirrors and commons "disappeared" from the Pool and found their way into other waters, best I say no more.
Going back to the smaller fish, they seemed to spend a great deal of their time feeding in the shallows, I and my predecessors always tried to dissuade new members from fishing for them, they were (realitivly) easy to catch and we didn't want them damaged or made any more spooked than they already were. Obviously if the bigger fish ventured to the shallows to feed then that was different. On a few recent visits nothing seems to have changed and old habits die hard and I still won't fish the shallows for the smaller fish, just doesn't seem right.
As to what the pool holds now I wouldn't like to say, last year we saw several ghosties and a lot of small fish, this year (this last week) we saw very little because the Pool was so coloured, very dark green, algae bloom, yet we still caught.
If it does hold a forty pound mirror and a four foot long common, great, but I struggle to accept it I'm afraid, but I would love to be proved wrong.

User avatar
Dave Burr
Salmon
Posts: 8074
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:03 pm
Location: Not far from the Wye
Contact:

Re: High drama in the Top Pitch, Redmire.

Post by Dave Burr » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:42 pm

With regards to fish 'walking' away from Redmire, that is something that has happened throughout it's fishing life. Okay, some were small fish but we all know how some carpers know best :roll:

But the Redmire stock must be the most discussed of all carp waters. I believe that monsters once lurked there but now? I haven't fished it but have walked it's banks and I just can't see it. I'd love to be proved wrong by Gurn on his next visit. :Wink:

User avatar
JPC
Ruffe
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:02 pm

Re: High drama in the Top Pitch, Redmire.

Post by JPC » Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:05 pm

Dave Burr wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:42 pm
With regards to fish 'walking' away from Redmire, that is something that has happened throughout it's fishing life. Okay, some were small fish but we all know how some carpers know best :roll:

But the Redmire stock must be the most discussed of all carp waters. I believe that monsters once lurked there but now? I haven't fished it but have walked it's banks and I just can't see it. I'd love to be proved wrong by Gurn on his next visit. :Wink:
Point taken Dave however back in the fifties certain things were accepted which weren't in the eighties.
Fish were gaffed (Richards), fish were moved (Walker and Thomas), fish were killed to be set up (Opie), fish died in sacks (Richards and Kefford) all these were part of fishing and accepted, the killing and moving were also done with permission. In the eighties none of these practices would have been acceptable. In particular the moving of fish baring in mind the problems with fish (carp) disease, SVC etc that were affecting our carp stocks at the time. Fish were taken from Redmire without permission to either stock into other waters or to be put into stock ponds to be used for breeding purposes. These fish were taken by some pretty well known and at at the time highly respected carp anglers, to me unacceptable.
With regard to your other comment "monsters once lurked there" I 100% agree.

User avatar
Gurn
Chub
Posts: 1076
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 1:22 pm
Location: Beds !!
Contact:

Re: High drama in the Top Pitch, Redmire.

Post by Gurn » Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:05 pm

Dave Burr wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:42 pm
With regards to fish 'walking' away from Redmire, that is something that has happened throughout it's fishing life. Okay, some were small fish but we all know how some carpers know best :roll:

But the Redmire stock must be the most discussed of all carp waters. I believe that monsters once lurked there but now? I haven't fished it but have walked it's banks and I just can't see it. I'd love to be proved wrong by Gurn on his next visit. :Wink:
Well, I would love to prove you wrong,Dave. Alas, I also believe that there is nothing in the pool above around 30lb. We must however bear in mind that the pool's monsters have historically been heavily spawnbound fish. If would only take one of the larger residents to retain spawn for a couple of years to enable it to become 40lb, one would think.
With regard to my comment regarding the original mirrors, I was referring to original strain stock preceding the recent stocking, not Mr. Leney's original stock. :Hat:

User avatar
Snape
Salmon
Posts: 8737
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 11:52 am
Location: North Oxfordshire
Contact:

Re: High drama in the Top Pitch, Redmire.

Post by Snape » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:19 pm

Talking to Skeff this weekend it seems that in order to renovate the pool a 100% drain down and removal of all fish is required the fish will need sorting and only the ones which are definitely not ghostie contaminated will be returned. So if there are any unknown fish lurking in the depths the truth will be revealed!
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.
~Henry David Thoreau

User avatar
Jardine
Roach
Posts: 290
Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:09 pm

Re: High drama in the Top Pitch, Redmire.

Post by Jardine » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:35 pm

Snape wrote:
Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:19 pm
Talking to Skeff this weekend it seems that in order to renovate the pool a 100% drain down and removal of all fish is required the fish will need sorting and only the ones which are definitely not ghostie contaminated will be returned. So if there are any unknown fish lurking in the depths the truth will be revealed!
Would'nt a complete drain down destroy any of the Redmire magic that remains?
Why not remove as many of the smaller and unwanted ghost carp by netting?
Redmire is never going to be the water it once was, why not let it evolve naturally with a bit of careful management?
Do we want another commercial fishery where you know the identity and weight of every single one of its inhabitants?
Bit worried about where this is going.
Best regards
Mem

User avatar
Snape
Salmon
Posts: 8737
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 11:52 am
Location: North Oxfordshire
Contact:

Re: High drama in the Top Pitch, Redmire.

Post by Snape » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:45 pm

Jardine wrote:
Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:35 pm
Snape wrote:
Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:19 pm
Talking to Skeff this weekend it seems that in order to renovate the pool a 100% drain down and removal of all fish is required the fish will need sorting and only the ones which are definitely not ghostie contaminated will be returned. So if there are any unknown fish lurking in the depths the truth will be revealed!
Would'nt a complete drain down destroy any of the Redmire magic that remains?
Why not remove as many of the smaller and unwanted ghost carp by netting?
Redmire is never going to be the water it once was, why not let it evolve naturally with a bit of careful management?
Do we want another commercial fishery where you know the identity and weight of every single one of its inhabitants?
Bit worried about where this is going.
Best regards
Mem
I think, sadly, the damage has already been done and it is about trying to rescue it. The only way to ensure the Leney strain is preserved is to remove 100% of all fish which could have non Leney genes. The pool has been netted many times in recent years and a lot of fish escape the net. If only 1 ghostie is left the damage to the gene pool will continue. It also needs a major desilting and the drain down is required for that. I suspect the account of what is actually there (although I think people know the answer already) will be kept under wraps so we still won't actually know....
I would be more worried about where the pool is going without this level of intervention. In recent years it had been a chocolate coloured souless place with laid out wood chipped bivvy areas and paths, and a designated picnic and BBQ area. When I last went in 2014 my heart sank and Skeff said when he last saw it recently it was no better, so this is definitely the lesser of evils.
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.
~Henry David Thoreau

Post Reply

Return to “Redmire Pool”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Watermole+ and 1 guest