J.S.Sharpe Carp

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Beresford
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Re: J.S.Sharpe Carp

Post by Beresford »

I slightly disagree. I have an unmolested near mint Avon (the transfer has had coat of varnish added I think) and a Carp that has done rather more fishing. Both rods fit exactly what I would call the production run specification. I've probably inspected about twenty Carp rods but only a handful of Avons but enough to give me a good idea of what to look for. I think it's only in later production when these rods aren't being produced in such numbers that the fittings start to vary. I'll suggest that if approached in the 1970's Sharpes would make up these rods to special order and in those instances use whatever fittings they had available. (When I asked in the early 1990's Greys were quite happy to build split cane MkIV Carp rods.)

I suggest that the majority of folks who have good examples of these Sharpes rods aren't looking to sell them and the majority of those you see for sale are those that have been restored or repaired. This slews the sense of what the standard production run rods looked like when new – keeping in mind that Sharpes wanted to mass produce them and make them all the same rather than messing about with individual bespoke rods. I also think there's a strong sense of bidders wanting to believe that a rod is in original condition when in very many cases they aren't but it's knowing how to spot the good restoration from the original which is often very difficult from photographs. When buying vintage cane I think you have to go by the basis of NOT buying it as there is bound to be something amiss. That is if you are paying a premium, as this rod now commands (£400). If you keep looking over a rod and can't find anything wrong or are happy with what you do find that's wrong then that's up to the individual. Currently this rod has now reached the highest price bracket that these rods sell for, if it gets much closer to £500 it'll be the most expensive one I've seen sold.
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Dave Burr
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Re: J.S.Sharpe Carp

Post by Dave Burr »

Makes me wish I'd dug a little deeper at a couple of auctions a year or two back :doh: Ain't it always the way.

My Carp has a fettled handle and a bit of a set so its not that valuable (mind you I didn't pay much for it :Wink: ) and it had an unlined butt ring and lined tip whereas the Avon (showing off now :Scared: ) has lined butt and tip. I'm not sure if thats how it was originally sold but it looks lightly used. Either way, they are fabulous rods and if I could only use two cane rods I'd probably stick with these despite my love of others on my rack.

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Wallys-Cast
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Re: J.S.Sharpe Carp

Post by Wallys-Cast »

[quote="Beresford"]I slightly disagree. I have an unmolested near mint Avon (the transfer has had coat of varnish added I think) and a Carp that has done rather more fishing. Both rods fit exactly what I would call the production run specification. I've probably inspected about twenty Carp rods but only a handful of Avons but enough to give me a good idea of what to look for. I think it's only in later production when these rods aren't being produced in such numbers that the fittings start to vary. I'll suggest that if approached in the 1970's Sharpes would make up these rods to special order and in those instances use whatever fittings they had available. (When I asked in the early 1990's Greys were quite happy to build split cane MkIV Carp rods.)

Yes I am sure you are right about the bespoke service available from Sharpes and also from other manufacturers such as Hardy's. The fittings could be customer specified and probably the rings and ring positions depending on the rods intended use. Rods could be supplied for use with a multiplier or fixed spool reel and have fixed reel seats in different positions or sliding reel rings if preferred. A lot of their rods could also be ordered in none impregnated cane and a spare tip section too if required.

I believe McHardy's of Carlisle who were agents for Sharpes of Aberdeen also supplied their impregnated rods as blanks or rod kits in various states of completion, as to whether these would have the Sharpes butt cap and transfers supplied with them is unknown but it could be where some of the different rods around today have come from. I have seen a couple of Sharpes butt caps with no number stamped into them so maybe they were supplied as part of a rod kit.
I must say those butt caps are a beautiful design.

I notice on the ebay rod that the protruding rivet on the butt cap doesn't look too professional and the reel rings are not the type usually supplied on Sharpes rods so it may have had a fixed reel seat removed and the cork handle rebuilt, therefore this could have been a 10ft spinning rod and simply had The Carp written on it after the handle conversion. Just a thought..

Wal.

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Beresford
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Re: J.S.Sharpe Carp

Post by Beresford »

That's interesting about Mc Hardy's – I used to buy rod building kits and bits from them. I think you're right – that pin through the but cap doesn't look quite right and the reel bands aren't the same as those fitted to my pair. There is something very 'right' about the Sharpes rods from the butt cap to the tip ring everything has been thought about and well resolved.

I have read somewhere that it's thought that Sharpes made about 400 of each rod. My gut feeling is they made more Carp than Avon but that's only based on what comes up for sale.
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Aquaerial
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Re: J.S.Sharpe Carp

Post by Aquaerial »

I notice on the ebay rod that the protruding rivet on the butt cap doesn't look too professional and the reel rings are not the type usually supplied on Sharpes rods so it may have had a fixed reel seat removed and the cork handle rebuilt, therefore this could have been a 10ft spinning rod and simply had The Carp written on it after the handle conversion. Just a thought..

Blimey Wal that is the voice of experience.. good spot and well fielded. I don't posses an Avon but my well used Carp rod displays its worthiness with pride and I concur with Dave that it would be well up there as an only rod.
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J.T
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Re: J.S.Sharpe Carp

Post by J.T »

SofaSurfer wrote:Each time I see one of these rods it has a discrepancy. The only two rods I've seen that are alike are mine! I'm beginning to think that there was no 'standard' rod. They can't all be refurbished. Surely the answer is that the fittings varied or evolved and that most were built to a customers specifications.
I think you are on to something there SS, Taking into account special orders Kit builds people changing bits and bobs out when new damage repair and so on its no wonder you don't often see two the same.

Its very easy for people to speculate on a rod as to if it has been refurbished or not but at the end of the day that's all it is speculation!
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Beresford
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Re: J.S.Sharpe Carp

Post by Beresford »

Over time though you get a good idea of what was standard, and what to look out for just the same as you do with vintage cars. So far on this rod we've got:

No decal
No Copper whipping on the butt ring foot
Non standard reel bands
Non standard lo-bell intermediate rings not Sharpes' own pattern that they fitted on all their rods (to me that's a real alarm bell)
Poorly pined butt cap
Probable non match of silk colour
Silks that don't look like Sharpes' silk due to the finishing

To me that lot adds up and that's only from the photographs. If you could see the rod in the flesh I think we could tell in an instant. I don't doubt the blank is Sharpes but I'd put money on this not being a genuine as new Sharpes of Aberdeen Carp as made in the mid sixtes to early seventies. Still it appears to be a nice rod. As always caveat emptor.
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Nobby
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Re: J.S.Sharpe Carp

Post by Nobby »

Wasn't there a chap out Norfolk way selling Sharpe's and Farlow's transfers recently?

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Wallys-Cast
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Re: J.S.Sharpe Carp

Post by Wallys-Cast »

Yes Nobby you're right, they used to turn up on ebay now and then so did the rod bag labels but its possible they may have been originals left over from Sharpes when they closed.

I just did a search on ebay and there's none on right now but I did notice transfers and decals for other things including Gibson guitars. :shocked: I'll bet its not long before there are a few dodgy ones of those doing the rounds at the boot sales.

Wal.

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Re: J.S.Sharpe Carp

Post by Beresford »

I bought a couple of the rod bag labels via ebay from a chap in Scotland. They look very good. I've no idea if they are genuine or replicas, if they latter they convince me well enough. I had Ellen Lawrence replace a 'torn to nothing left' one on a genuine Sharpes bag and she made me a replica Sharpes bag using the other one and some pale khaki material with pale ties. It looks nice.
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