Edward Barder barbus maximus

[Gary Bills]

Reference turning the rod round when playing fish,I do think you can do this on powerful rods but NOT with fine tipped rods like Perfection Roach and other similar roach rods .these are have stand of guides and in some instances the cane on the tip will want to twist which of course damages the fibres.

Sorry, but its my view that if a rod has to be turned over when an angler is playing a fish, to stop the rod taking on a set, then it's simply not fit for purpose.

[Nobby]

I think it's more about spreading the load over years of use, as opposed to it being a duff rod that can't take a good bending.

Most rods will take a slight set over time......hence the practice of 'turning' a rod when it is refurbished.

Just think of how many Allcocks rods you see with the transfer on top........they started off on the bottom ( though why, I have no idea! )

[Wallys-Cast]

Most rods I see have taken a set because they are bound too tightly in the cloth bag and left for weeks or months in that state. A couple of days in a damp garage will do it and just look at the amount of rod that are sold as "dads old rod, recently discovered in the back of the garage" you just know its going to be like a dogs hind leg and soaking wet.
After use a rod should be taken out of the bag, dried with a cloth and allowed to air when you get home then put back in its bag with ties fastened very loosely and hung somewhere dry from its loop on the bottom of the bag. Also any chips in the varnish should be varnished over once the rod is dry or moisture can enter the cane and make a soft spot. Its a good idea to wax the ends of the cane at the ferrules as moisture can be absorbed up the fibres and this also can create a weak spot just above the ferrule. It also makes the cane expand and can split ferrules, how many allcocks whole cane butt sections do see with split ferrules, nearly all of them because they didn't seal the cane end before or after fitting the ferrule.

A lot of top quality ferrules have brass blanks on the ends of the males and halfway up inside the females, this is to stop moisture penetration on the blank ends.


I must admit though you do seem to hear of a lot of modern built rods taking a set, perhaps they are not baked long enough, maybe to enable the cane to be more easily worked on.
I know cane is actually a type of grass but very similar to hardwood in its fibre structure, now if you remove all the moisture from hardwood it becomes very hard and brittle so unless its for making an ornament some moisture content is needed to give it some flex.

I have heard it said the early rods built by Southwell were prone to snapping due to being baked too hard making them brittle so I suppose its a compromise between the two that is needed. I did break a early Mk 1V once but not during use, that was walking it into the ground and the tip snapped cleanly off about 10 inches from the top. I think a softer rod would have still fractured but not snapped cleanly off. Not that it would have made much difference.

Just my thoughts and always happy to be corrected, every day's a school day as they say.

Wal.

[MHC]

Always willing to oblige... I am grateful that 20 years ago I learned to build rods here in North America (though originally from Cookham, Berks) where bamboo has become increasingly popular to both make and to use ( see Clarks Cane forum) to the point that there is a growing market for top notch components and fittings, we now have beautiful and functional ferrules and reel fittings being produced for mostly fly rods but also spinning rods (see REC rod components) there are wonderful agate guides, or rings, and all manner of help and advice both online and around. A wealth of new old stock rings and fittings are also surfacing on eBay. As I said,we organize the Canadian Cane gathering every two years and makers both professional and hobbyists plus component manufactures (once the sole bamboo importer, Andy Royer turned up) come from all over this continent, we compare notes and help each other to enjoy the craft. From all of this activity a concensus emerges from the group as to the best way of doing things. Of course we all have our little ways of doing the same thing. It seems a shame that there has not been the same growing interest in new bamboo rods in the UK, Paul Cook and I have discussed this in the past. It seems that they are still perceived as quaint, old fashioned and expensive. I have mentioned this before, the market here is driven by fly fishermen who willingly spend large amounts of money on a top notch bamboo fly rod. And they have a wide choice, as there are quite a few professional makers in the US, less in Canada, but all produce beautiful rods. Sadly in the UK, but one name most often comes to mind, though Paul Cook plus one or two others make excellent rods.

Old bamboo sea rods sometimes had two sets of rings, one set on each face, in order to be used on alternative trips to even out the considerable stress. To say that- if a cane rod does not bend back straight then it is not fit for purpose, is somewhat unrealistic. Carbon also will not bend back perfectly straight either after bending, check it out, but give it a waggle and it's straight again, same for good bamboo. Of course it is not very useful to turn a rod over with high guides on. It should be added that a slight bend after flexing is not a 'set' as the rod will straighten again if the tension is evened out from the other side, or given a 'waggle'.

There is much conjecture and mis information about bamboo rods, one of which is the obsession (by usually those new to rod making) about drying out the bamboo as much as possible and sealing it up with varnish in order for none to get back in to rot and cause fracture. What ever is done and however many coats of varnish will be applied, ambient moisture will always return to the bamboo to some extent, then leave again - the bamboo will swell and contract. This is very evident here as winters are very dry indeed and summers can be very humid, the taper difference in a fly rod taper with these extremes could be as much one line weight. I should add that in 20 years of making all kinds of rods I have yet to have or see a split ferrule, and I use some very thin walled n/silver ones.. Heat treating in an oven removes most of the moisture and importantly, lets only a proportion return (I forget the %) again, test have been done by enthusiastic Americans.

A small exposed and unvarnished area on a rod will not become a soft spot as claimed. I have my wading staff which is a discarded butt section of a Mk IV, it has been varnished years ago but also for some years just up from the button the rocks have chipped the varnish away, I floats for hours in the water at my side. The bamboo has not suffered in any way and I can still lean on it flexing it a little without any problems.

Regarding flame vs. heat gun. In the dead of winter when it is very dry we soak our split non planed strips at least for a few hours immersed totally in water. Water is not the enemy of bamboo - the cut bundles are floated down river after harvest. When worked over the heat gun to straighten them out the cells in the structure suddenly give and then slide in the lignum enabling wonky strips to be hand straightened, higher moisture content eases this process. In summer the cane will have a higher water content naturally, so the heat gun alone does the job. I would still never put the tip of a completed rod anywhere near a naked flame. Candle flames are quite cool (yellow flame is) and too small for my purposes which need a wider diffused but quite high temp. So Nobby, you are correct moisture and dry heat have their place.

Bamboo is a very special natural material, structurally very different to wood, with 6" power fibres (fibrovascular bundles) in lignum, more similar to composition of graphite shards in resin, than wood. Handle and work a 12' x 2 1/2" length down into a rod and you will know what I mean. There is a wonderful book - The Anglers Bamboo by Luis Marden which is about the grass itself ,Tonkin, the one species we use for rods out of more than 1100.

Malcolm

[Wallys-Cast]

Thank's Malcolm, very enlightening.

However I still say keep your cane dry and your varnish up to scratch, a small chip in the varnish will get bigger as the moisture is absorbed lifting the varnish around it. Keep moisture out, it will do a cane fishing rod no good at all.
As for split ferrules, I have replaced at least 6 split ferrules this year alone, nearly all on Allcocks rods and all were plain brass suction type yes but they do split with expanding cane..
Though I am generally working on rods of at least 50 years old which have stood the test of time and can say with some conviction that damp storage is a rod killer.

regards.
Wal.

[MHC]

Then I venture, that we should all avoid Allcocks rods, just to be on the safe side.

[Nobby]

The split ferrules I have had to replace have largely been on whole cane rod butts...does whole cane perhaps swell more readilly? Being hollow might help it happen I suppose?
I too think dampo garage floors have a lot to answer for.....I think people forget concrete is porous! Just think where fence posts always rot...at the bottom!

I try not to look at American rod-part sites..it depresses me. Ferrules for thrupence ha'penny a dozen, whereas the last two sets I bought cost me £50. I did once enquire of some outfit called Mudslide or summat as to the cost of posting me some of their cheapo ferrules........£30 a set.

No thank-you!

[Gary Bills]

I use 26-braid high modulus carbon blanks and, believe me, they don't take a set after bending. This is not to launch a cane/carbon debate, but simply to make a statement of fact.

[Wallys-Cast]

The split ferrules I have had to replace have largely been on whole cane rod butts...does whole cane perhaps swell more readilly? Being hollow might help it happen I suppose?
I too think dampo garage floors have a lot to answer for.....I think people forget concrete is porous! Just think where fence posts always rot...at the bottom!

I try not to look at American rod-part sites..it depresses me. Ferrules for thrupence ha'penny a dozen, whereas the last two sets I bought cost me £50. I did once enquire of some outfit called Mudslide or summat as to the cost of posting me some of their cheapo ferrules........£30 a set.

No thank-you!

Nobby, I bought a couple of sets of ferrules from the USA and they were lovely looking things but they were too loose to use. I usually have to polish a ferrule to get it to fit together but these were machined too slack. They went missing in the return post so I lost the lot.

I have just taken delivery of a "loft find" all split cane Sealey Octofloat and noticed the ferrules which are otherwise a good fit don't pop on separation so I assumed the ferrules must be loose on the cane but when I had a closer look they're both split allowing air in and stopping the suction action.

I have had some good ferrules from anglerssupplies on ebay, they usually need a lot of fettling and may need the ends splinting but well worth the price.

Wal.

[Nobby]

Yes, I've used those too Wal, they do indeed take forever to lap in. The expensive ones from Ted Oliver took just ten minutes, though.