Edward Barder Rods

The Edward Barder Rods forum.
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Macko
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Re: Edward Barder Rods

Post by Macko »

I had a Merlin which i bought 2nd hand but i failed to notice it had a set about 9 inches from the tip ring. I took it to Edward who worked his flame on it, but after a couple of outings
it had returned, so it had to go. The previous owner probably over stressed it.

I must say it was the best cane rod i've ever held, the balance and action of the rod is superb and worth every penny.

If i could get a new one tomorrow from Edward i'd buy it without hesitation, but at my age i'm not prepared to order one and wait probably 2 yrs.

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Snape
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Re: Edward Barder Rods

Post by Snape »

Macko wrote:I had a Merlin which i bought 2nd hand but i failed to notice it had a set about 9 inches from the tip ring. I took it to Edward who worked his flame on it, but after a couple of outings
it had returned, so it had to go. The previous owner probably over stressed it.

I must say it was the best cane rod i've ever held, the balance and action of the rod is superb and worth every penny.

If i could get a new one tomorrow from Edward i'd buy it without hesitation, but at my age i'm not prepared to order one and wait probably 2 yrs.
I stressed the tip of my Merlin on one of its first outings when I hooked a double figure carp in the margins when tench fishing and it thrashed at the net. Edward worked his flame magic and thankfully several years later it is still straight.
Of course there is a school of thought that a cane rod isn't really christened until it has a bit of a set!
Yes it is sublime. To the extent that I rarely use anything else....
“Fishing is much more than fish. It is the great occasion when we may return to the fine simplicity of our forefathers,” Herbert Hoover.
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Mark
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Re: Edward Barder Rods

Post by Mark »

What do you mean chaps when you say stressed the tip. I must have had literally 50 or 60 double figure carp on my RW B. James Mk IV carp rod since I’ve had it, god knows how many under 10lb's and the rod was 30+ years old when I had it.

Please forgive the ignorance here chaps, is this something that only happens to new cane rods or has it always happened or have I just been lucky. :think:
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The most precious places in the English landscape are those secretive corners,
where you find only elder trees, nettles and dreams. (BB - Denys Watkins-Pitchford).

Haydn Clarke

Re: Edward Barder Rods

Post by Haydn Clarke »

Mark, a Merlin is a considerably lighter weight rod than you RW MK IV. Perhaps something more akin to a wizard I think, and therefore built for catching much smaller fish.

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Snape
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Re: Edward Barder Rods

Post by Snape »

Mark wrote:What do you mean chaps when you say stressed the tip. I must have had literally 50 or 60 double figure carp on my RW B. James Mk IV carp rod since I’ve had it, god knows how many under 10lb's and the rod was 30+ years old when I had it.

Please forgive the ignorance here chaps, is this something that only happens to new cane rods or has it always happened or have I just been lucky. :think:
It is certainly not something that happens to only new cane rods.
It usually has to do with the angle the rod is held at. The angle between the tip of the rod and the line should be as large as possible. When landing a fish it is tempting to hold the rod vertically to bring the fish close enough to net at that point the angle is less than 90 degrees and the tip will bend right over. This may stress the fibres in the tip of the rod and it may not go back to being straight once the force is removed.

These chaps are asking to stress their tips I reckon...
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It has a lot to do with the action of the rod. The MKIV carp and Avon both have through actions and so the tips don't particularly bend over. The Merlin and Barbus Maximus are progressive action so the tip bends first and then it spreads along the rod.
Although the Merlin is more tippy than the MKIV it has plenty of steel and will cope with double figure carp and barbel (just watch the tip)! The MKIV is such a through action it is hard to stress the tip. Likewise the Barbus Maximus MKI which has a butt which has to be seen to be be believed so once the action has built up it is incredibly powerful but is has a very delicate and light tip so can be stressed easily and at nearly 12' long that is easier to do. Edward made the MKII at 11' (a beefed up Merlin in essence) because people had tip problems. I am just very careful with big fish in the margins and when netting with both these rods but I don't worry with a MKIV. However I know of someone who managed it with a MKIV when he caught a double figure barbel from a boat on a weir in the Thames.
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“Fishing is much more than fish. It is the great occasion when we may return to the fine simplicity of our forefathers,” Herbert Hoover.
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Mark
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Re: Edward Barder Rods

Post by Mark »

Thanks for the explanation Snape, I fully understand now.
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Beresford
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Re: Edward Barder Rods

Post by Beresford »

Does anybody here own a Barder Bishop? I've always wanted one but was alarmed to read, that one or two owners were less than impressed. Anybody care to share their experiences in pride of ownership of otherwise, is the rod that much better than a MkIV Carp?

Incidentally I was watching Chris Yates' 'Caught in time' and when attached to the large Jade carp, he referred to his rod as having a test curve of 2lbs. The rod looked like another Barder and that got me wondering if EB had increased the power of the Bishop or if it was another Yates special. Thoughts?
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Snape
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Re: Edward Barder Rods

Post by Snape »

Beresford wrote:Does anybody here own a Barder Bishop? I've always wanted one but was alarmed to read, that one or two owners were less than impressed. Anybody care to share their experiences in pride of ownership of otherwise, is the rod that much better than a MkIV Carp?

Incidentally I was watching Chris Yates' 'Caught in time' and when attached to the large Jade carp, he referred to his rod as having a test curve of 2lbs. The rod looked like another Barder and that got me wondering if EB had increased the power of the Bishop or if it was another Yates special. Thoughts?
I have a Bishop Avon (not a standard Barder rod) with a 1lb t.c. It is a lovely rod. I want a proper Bishop but can't justify it now. I know someone with one and he loves it. I don't think there's a lot of difference with the MKIV, with a Barder you pay a lot for the sheer quality of materials and craftsmanship. The Bishop is 1 foot longer so that makes a difference. I would be amazed if someone didn't like a Barder rod other than if they were not used to handling cane and bought one without realising what they are like.
“Fishing is much more than fish. It is the great occasion when we may return to the fine simplicity of our forefathers,” Herbert Hoover.
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GloucesterOldSpot

Re: Edward Barder Rods

Post by GloucesterOldSpot »

The extra foot of length makes a significant difference. Not so much in terms of how far you can reach or cast, but the effect on the rods action. You might assume a rod rated at 1.75lb test would be stiffer than one at 1.5lb test, but that's true only if both are equal length. The longer a rod is, the softer it will feel, regardless of test curve. Thus an eleven foot 1.75lb test rod is more powerful than a ten foot 1.5lb rod, but it will feel if anything a little softer, which makes casting light baits easier. Jack Hilton found this out when he first experimented with glass blanks, and the modern twelve footer in carbon simply extends the principle.

Also, the longer a rod is, the less the reel has to do when playing a fish. A long, progressive through-actioned rod can subdue even quite big fish close-in without any line being taken at all, whereas a short rod has limited capacity to absorb runs without help from the reel.

I have only handled one Barder rod (a Merlin) but I've seen a few others. The Merlin felt superb - very tight and crisp and well balanced - but I really didn't like the OTT finish. I agree that it is unsurpassed craftsmanship, but the thing is a fishing rod, not a work of art. It's not just Edward Barder's rods either - almost all cane rodmakers now aspire to mimic this flawless transparency of varnish (which is presumably demanded by the customer) and use ultrafine Japanese silks to achieve it, but I find it utterly absurd. Give me a rod whipped with sensible thickness thread - something that'll hold a ring on firmly without requiring eight thousand turns to do it - and a simple varnish job sufficient to keep water out, and don't ask me to pay the excess labour charges involved in doing it the hard way.

The blank is the important thing - all the rest is cosmetic. Chapmans will make you a blank which to all intents and purposes is equal to a Barder, and you can make a rod up from it yourself for about a quarter the total outlay (and have the finished article on the bank a lot sooner).

To give some balance, I don't like the modern rod builder's insistence on using epoxy to coat whippings either. It looks ugly and it's a perfect pain to remove if a ring gets damaged. Let's have sensible grade C or D gauge nylon whippings sealed with varnish, the kind of thing that held rings on quite adequately for years, and is easily removed and replaced by the kitchen table rod repairer.

Anyway, that's my take on it. I don't expect many will agree with me!

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Michael
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Re: Edward Barder Rods

Post by Michael »

gloucesteroldspot wrote:The extra foot of length makes a significant difference. Not so much in terms of how far you can reach or cast, but the effect on the rods action. You might assume a rod rated at 1.75lb test would be stiffer than one at 1.5lb test, but that's true only if both are equal length. The longer a rod is, the softer it will feel, regardless of test curve. Thus an eleven foot 1.75lb test rod is more powerful than a ten foot 1.5lb rod, but it will feel if anything a little softer, which makes casting light baits easier. Jack Hilton found this out when he first experimented with glass blanks, and the modern twelve footer in carbon simply extends the principle.

Also, the longer a rod is, the less the reel has to do when playing a fish. A long, progressive through-actioned rod can subdue even quite big fish close-in without any line being taken at all, whereas a short rod has limited capacity to absorb runs without help from the reel.

I have only handled one Barder rod (a Merlin) but I've seen a few others. The Merlin felt superb - very tight and crisp and well balanced - but I really didn't like the OTT finish. I agree that it is unsurpassed craftsmanship, but the thing is a fishing rod, not a work of art. It's not just Edward Barder's rods either - almost all cane rodmakers now aspire to mimic this flawless transparency of varnish (which is presumably demanded by the customer) and use ultrafine Japanese silks to achieve it, but I find it utterly absurd. Give me a rod whipped with sensible thickness thread - something that'll hold a ring on firmly without requiring eight thousand turns to do it - and a simple varnish job sufficient to keep water out, and don't ask me to pay the excess labour charges involved in doing it the hard way.

The blank is the important thing - all the rest is cosmetic. Chapmans will make you a blank which to all intents and purposes is equal to a Barder, and you can make a rod up from it yourself for about a quarter the total outlay (and have the finished article on the bank a lot sooner).

To give some balance, I don't like the modern rod builder's insistence on using epoxy to coat whippings either. It looks ugly and it's a perfect pain to remove if a ring gets damaged. Let's have sensible grade C or D gauge nylon whippings sealed with varnish, the kind of thing that held rings on quite adequately for years, and is easily removed and replaced by the kitchen table rod repairer.

Anyway, that's my take on it. I don't expect many will agree with me!
Blimey G, and there’s me thinking I gave you first refusal on the Merlin when I get bored with it….

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